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Actual, literal Nazis got us to the Moon and frankly no one cared. Not then, not now. Try separating politics from the advancement of humanity, you'll feel bett

Actual, literal Nazis got us to the Moon and frankly no one cared. Not then, not now. Try separating politics from the advancement of humanity, you'll feel better.

qarl2 3mo ago
You're conflating politics and ethics.
- adastra22 3mo ago
  Von Braun used the Nazi war machine to make his rockets. Musk ran DOGE. They’re both political figures by their own choices.
  - feshbach 3mo ago
    [dead]
  - qarl2 3mo ago
    The important factor isn't politics. It's ethics. Saying it's about politics is obfuscation.
  - inglor_cz 3mo ago
    After reading this https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/breakdown-in-pakistan https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/breakdown-in-pakistan and this https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-time-i-joined-peace-corps-and https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-time-i-joined-peac... I do wonder whether much of USAID and similar programs are an instance of a road to hell paved with good intentions. If professional NGOs hollow out existing local organizations and destroy local ability to organize on the cheap, they may be basically condemning entire countries to perpetual dependence on someone's else's politics and budgets.
    - adastra22 3mo ago
      That’s the point. I’m not being cynical, USAID is self-serving diplomacy. Doesn’t make zeroing out the budget the right call though.
WalterBright 3mo ago
In "V2" page 179 Dornberger writes: "Do you know that your closest colleagues (including von Braun) have stated in company at Zinnowitz that it had never been their intention to make a weapon of war out of he rocket? That they had worked, under pressure from yourself (Dornberger) at the whole business of development and only in order to obtain money for their experiments and the confirmation of their theories? That their object all along has been space travel?" The men had been arrested by the Gestapo and were going to be executed. Dornberger was also threatened with arrest, but he managed to get von Braun and the other released.
- 486sx33 3mo ago
  [dead]
- pudgywalsh 3mo ago
  Good info Walter, but I wasn't trying to get too deep. Point is to not judge a book by its cover.
- GolfPopper 3mo ago
  From by Tom Lehrer's "Wernher von Braun"[1], Don't say that he's hypocritical Say rather that he's apolitical "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun 1. https://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro?t=14 https://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro?t=14
- WalterBright 3mo ago
  Another interesting factoid about the V2 program is it accelerated the collapse of the Reich. How can that be, you might ask? The V2 program was an incredibly expensive program, and sucked up enormous resources. But the V2 proved to be an inconsequential weapon, and did very little damage, because its guidance system was primitive. The V1, ironically, was effective. Not because it wreaked critical damage on Britain, but because it was cheap to build and deploy, and the British spent a great deal of resources trying to stop it. It reminds me of the current drone warfare. Hitler also demanded that it be used to attack London, blowing up civilian homes, when it would have been much more effective attacking the staging areas for D-Day.
jaybrendansmith 3mo ago
Perhaps it takes a Nazi to make a good rocket?
mlindner 3mo ago
You're implying that von Braun was still a nazi when he was working in the US (he wasn't) and you imply that Elon Musk is a nazi in the first place when he's done nothing to indicate that.
- qarl2 3mo ago
  > nothing Heh.
- inglor_cz 3mo ago
  Well, the Nazi party was banned permanently by the Allied powers on Oct 10, 1945, so technically every member still alive became an ex-Nazi at that point. Including the leaders later hanged in Nuremberg, and, of course, Wernher von Braun. Of course some people say that once a Nazi, always a Nazi.
_davide_ 3mo ago
him being nazi was inconsequential, the richest person in earth being Nazi is. > Try separating politics from the advancement of humanity, you'll feel better. can't. won't.

Actual, literal Nazis got us to the Moon and frankly no one cared. Not then, not now. Try separating politics from the advancement of humanity, you'll feel better.

qarl2 3mo ago

You're conflating politics and ethics.

adastra22 3mo ago
Von Braun used the Nazi war machine to make his rockets. Musk ran DOGE. They’re both political figures by their own choices.
- feshbach 3mo ago
  [dead]
- qarl2 3mo ago
  The important factor isn't politics. It's ethics. Saying it's about politics is obfuscation.
- inglor_cz 3mo ago
  After reading this https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/breakdown-in-pakistan https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/breakdown-in-pakistan and this https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-time-i-joined-peace-corps-and https://lydialaurenson.substack.com/p/the-time-i-joined-peac... I do wonder whether much of USAID and similar programs are an instance of a road to hell paved with good intentions. If professional NGOs hollow out existing local organizations and destroy local ability to organize on the cheap, they may be basically condemning entire countries to perpetual dependence on someone's else's politics and budgets.
  - adastra22 3mo ago
    That’s the point. I’m not being cynical, USAID is self-serving diplomacy. Doesn’t make zeroing out the budget the right call though.

WalterBright 3mo ago

In "V2" page 179 Dornberger writes: "Do you know that your closest colleagues (including von Braun) have stated in company at Zinnowitz that it had never been their intention to make a weapon of war out of he rocket? That they had worked, under pressure from yourself (Dornberger) at the whole business of development and only in order to obtain money for their experiments and the confirmation of their theories? That their object all along has been space travel?" The men had been arrested by the Gestapo and were going to be executed. Dornberger was also threatened with arrest, but he managed to get von Braun and the other released.

486sx33 3mo ago
[dead]
pudgywalsh 3mo ago
Good info Walter, but I wasn't trying to get too deep. Point is to not judge a book by its cover.
GolfPopper 3mo ago
From by Tom Lehrer's "Wernher von Braun"[1], Don't say that he's hypocritical Say rather that he's apolitical "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun 1. https://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro?t=14 https://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro?t=14
WalterBright 3mo ago
Another interesting factoid about the V2 program is it accelerated the collapse of the Reich. How can that be, you might ask? The V2 program was an incredibly expensive program, and sucked up enormous resources. But the V2 proved to be an inconsequential weapon, and did very little damage, because its guidance system was primitive. The V1, ironically, was effective. Not because it wreaked critical damage on Britain, but because it was cheap to build and deploy, and the British spent a great deal of resources trying to stop it. It reminds me of the current drone warfare. Hitler also demanded that it be used to attack London, blowing up civilian homes, when it would have been much more effective attacking the staging areas for D-Day.

jaybrendansmith 3mo ago

Perhaps it takes a Nazi to make a good rocket?

mlindner 3mo ago

You're implying that von Braun was still a nazi when he was working in the US (he wasn't) and you imply that Elon Musk is a nazi in the first place when he's done nothing to indicate that.

qarl2 3mo ago
> nothing Heh.
inglor_cz 3mo ago
Well, the Nazi party was banned permanently by the Allied powers on Oct 10, 1945, so technically every member still alive became an ex-Nazi at that point. Including the leaders later hanged in Nuremberg, and, of course, Wernher von Braun. Of course some people say that once a Nazi, always a Nazi.

_davide_ 3mo ago

him being nazi was inconsequential, the richest person in earth being Nazi is. > Try separating politics from the advancement of humanity, you'll feel better. can't. won't.