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Ask HN: Recruiter retracted offer

8 points by throwaway000 14y ago

I was offered a job as a software engineer at a well-known company. Since I already had 2 other offers, their recruiter called and emailed me an offer contingent upon background and references check, and said the formal offer would follow; he also said I'd receive an email for the background check from the HR that night. I'm in US on a visa expiring in <45 days unless I get a job, so it was very crucial that I start the job ASAP. When I didn't receive the email that night, I emailed the recruiter after the weekend, asking him to check with on the email, and if there was any way I could start this month, but was told no. I called him that afternoon to check on the email again, and to see if there was any way I could start earlier, and started throwing in ideas like taking an unpaid leave after starting; he said that would be illegal (which I wasn't aware) and we agreed on a date in the next month. Another day passed and I still hadn't received the email, and my references hadn't even been contacted. I emailed the recruiter and left a voicemail. The recruiter went another day without replying. Since we'd been communicating via Jobvite until then, I emailed him directly next day and asked to talk on the phone. He emailed me back that night, saying he had been busy traveling, but he'd call me the next day. When he failed to call me the next day, I sent him another email that night; he emailed me back the next day that he'll contact me once he gets back in the office after the weekend. Now the recruiter sent me an email on an official letterhead stating that they've decided not to proceed "due to [my] actions subsequent to receiving [the] offer, including [my] request to become an employee before [I] would actually start working." Am I in the wrong here? I admit I may have been a bit forward, but I'm not sure what else I was supposed to do, especially given my position. I'm left without a job and I don't know what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

drstewart 14y ago
It's a tough situation, but you may have come on a bit strong. By my count, you left 4 emails, once voice-mail, and had one conversation by phone in the span of less than 4 business days. At this point, I don't think the relationship with that company is salvageable. I would try to move on. I assume you already turned down the other job offers? Depending on how you did it, you couldn't lose anything by emailing them again and letting them know you're still open to any opportunities that may be available.
- throwaway000 14y ago
  How much is too much when emailing the recruiters? TBH I wouldn't have emailed him if he hadn't assured me that I'd receive the email that night; if he said it would take a week, I would've waited a week before emailing him again. What am I supposed to do when a recruiter isn't being punctual?
  - drstewart 14y ago
    Personally, I would consider the minimum between contact times to be a full business day, but in reality I'd usually wait 3-5 days. That said, I have never been in your position where I was short on time and options, so I would probably have done something similar if I were you.
staunch 14y ago
Probably what I'd write, for better or worse: --snip-- Hi Recruiter, Sorry if I came across as a pest - I really didn't mean to. Starting early was just an idea, I had no idea there might be legal issues with that. You can imagine that being in a visa situation like I am can make these matters rather urgent and stressful. I'd still really like to take the job, which I'm a great fit for. Hopefully you can empathize with my situation and we can get this thing done. Let me know if you can still make this happen. Thanks, Throwaway --snip--
Peroni 14y ago
If the recruiter was aware of your visa situation then I would argue that they've been unnecessarily harsh. If they weren't aware then I agree with their stance 100%. If they were aware then I would suggest contacting them directly (preferably over the phone) to explain your eagerness and highlight the fact that you were completely oblivious to the legalities around starting and taking unpaid leave immediately. To be honest, if I was in the recruiters shoes, your persistance would have concerned me and raised doubts over your motivation for accepting the job. Are you accepting because you just need a job for your visa process or are you accepting because you legitimately want to work here?
- throwaway000 14y ago
  The fact that I had to decline 2 offers for this made me even more anxious when they were unwilling to negotiate on the start date, especially since the other companies wanted me to start working right away in the same month. Honestly, I chose the company over the others because of its unique development environment and culture; they did offer higher salary than the others, but I would've chosen them even if they paid less.
thifm 14y ago
Skip this one and mail the other offer that you probably refused, tell the truth and be sorry for your mistake. Also tell them that you really want to work for them. Telling the truth have always got me into stuff I wouldn't otherwise. That will differentiate you from the others and I truly believe that you will get a job. Don't run after the recruiter again, he doesn't give a shit and probably hired someone else and probably don't know how it's the feeling of getting kicked out of a country. He's too busy with his own shit to care.
eshvk 14y ago
I am really sorry about your situation but I definitely feel that you probably came off too strong. Also, unfortunately, when a person tells you to your face that something is illegal, they probably also suspect that you know that that something was illegal and were hoping that it would fly past them. I feel like there possibly was a communication issue but the only options you have are relaxing and talking to the recruiter again or trying to take up one of your other offers. P.S: Advice for the future: Lighten up. If you are on an H-1B and you get fired, you have to find a job immediately in theory and practically within a time span of 15 days or so. While you will find some people sympathetic to your problem, empathy comes from shared experiences and sometimes people are just too involved in their own lives to feel for your problems.
shail 14y ago
hey throwaway, I was in a similar situation sometime ago. Fortunately or not, I got a job eventually. But I am surprised that you being worried about your visa was seen as such a pesty behavior (actually its not and I am not going to explain why either, people in such a situation would know well). The problem here is with the system. H1-Bs losing job should be given some extra time to search for a good job otherwise you would end up joining for the sake of joining. Another thing, even if you have to go back to your origin country, your H1B visa is still usable. You just need to get a job offer. Infact while you are out of US, that time period is also not counted towards your H1B time left. One last thing, go to a immigration lawyer (generally they charge $100 per hour) and discuss with them, it will give you the most authentic information about how to go around this situation. Worst case, go back to your origin country and do a startup ;).
Mz 14y ago
I think part of your mistake was in declining two other offers. I don't see where you have explained why you did that, knowing you had a visa issue. You created a situation where you were desperate. It did not have to be so. Without knowing all the particulars, I will suggest that you should have emailed them prior to declining the other offers and said "I need a firm start date and formal/official hire letter by X time (say 48 hours). If that is not possible, due to my visa situation, I will have no choice but to accept one of these other offers." If staying in the U.S. was the most important thing, you should have made sure your choices aligned with that. If getting a particular "dream" job was more critical and you were willing to gamble with being deported if it fell through, that gamble is on you if it does not work out. If there is some other reason you made this unfortunate series of choices, you need to use this as a learning opportunity. (I am guessing you felt some sense of loyalty to them though you did not have a formal offer and then felt they "owed" you loyalty in return for the personal sacrifice you made out of loyalty to them. If so, it was a misplaced and unrealistic sentiment.) I will suggest you take some of the other advice being offered on how to try to salvage the situation and also pick up a couple of books on negotiating. "Getting to yes" and "The mind and heart of the negotiator" are both good. The first is a quick read, so you might want to start there if you haven't seen it before as it might help you now, with your current situation. The second is meatier and more of a long term investment. Best of luck.

8 points by throwaway000 14y ago

drstewart 14y ago

It's a tough situation, but you may have come on a bit strong. By my count, you left 4 emails, once voice-mail, and had one conversation by phone in the span of less than 4 business days. At this point, I don't think the relationship with that company is salvageable. I would try to move on. I assume you already turned down the other job offers? Depending on how you did it, you couldn't lose anything by emailing them again and letting them know you're still open to any opportunities that may be available.

throwaway000 14y ago
How much is too much when emailing the recruiters? TBH I wouldn't have emailed him if he hadn't assured me that I'd receive the email that night; if he said it would take a week, I would've waited a week before emailing him again. What am I supposed to do when a recruiter isn't being punctual?
- drstewart 14y ago
  Personally, I would consider the minimum between contact times to be a full business day, but in reality I'd usually wait 3-5 days. That said, I have never been in your position where I was short on time and options, so I would probably have done something similar if I were you.

staunch 14y ago

Probably what I'd write, for better or worse: --snip-- Hi Recruiter, Sorry if I came across as a pest - I really didn't mean to. Starting early was just an idea, I had no idea there might be legal issues with that. You can imagine that being in a visa situation like I am can make these matters rather urgent and stressful. I'd still really like to take the job, which I'm a great fit for. Hopefully you can empathize with my situation and we can get this thing done. Let me know if you can still make this happen. Thanks, Throwaway --snip--

Peroni 14y ago

If the recruiter was aware of your visa situation then I would argue that they've been unnecessarily harsh. If they weren't aware then I agree with their stance 100%. If they were aware then I would suggest contacting them directly (preferably over the phone) to explain your eagerness and highlight the fact that you were completely oblivious to the legalities around starting and taking unpaid leave immediately. To be honest, if I was in the recruiters shoes, your persistance would have concerned me and raised doubts over your motivation for accepting the job. Are you accepting because you just need a job for your visa process or are you accepting because you legitimately want to work here?

throwaway000 14y ago
The fact that I had to decline 2 offers for this made me even more anxious when they were unwilling to negotiate on the start date, especially since the other companies wanted me to start working right away in the same month. Honestly, I chose the company over the others because of its unique development environment and culture; they did offer higher salary than the others, but I would've chosen them even if they paid less.

thifm 14y ago

Skip this one and mail the other offer that you probably refused, tell the truth and be sorry for your mistake. Also tell them that you really want to work for them. Telling the truth have always got me into stuff I wouldn't otherwise. That will differentiate you from the others and I truly believe that you will get a job. Don't run after the recruiter again, he doesn't give a shit and probably hired someone else and probably don't know how it's the feeling of getting kicked out of a country. He's too busy with his own shit to care.

eshvk 14y ago

I am really sorry about your situation but I definitely feel that you probably came off too strong. Also, unfortunately, when a person tells you to your face that something is illegal, they probably also suspect that you know that that something was illegal and were hoping that it would fly past them. I feel like there possibly was a communication issue but the only options you have are relaxing and talking to the recruiter again or trying to take up one of your other offers. P.S: Advice for the future: Lighten up. If you are on an H-1B and you get fired, you have to find a job immediately in theory and practically within a time span of 15 days or so. While you will find some people sympathetic to your problem, empathy comes from shared experiences and sometimes people are just too involved in their own lives to feel for your problems.

shail 14y ago

hey throwaway, I was in a similar situation sometime ago. Fortunately or not, I got a job eventually. But I am surprised that you being worried about your visa was seen as such a pesty behavior (actually its not and I am not going to explain why either, people in such a situation would know well). The problem here is with the system. H1-Bs losing job should be given some extra time to search for a good job otherwise you would end up joining for the sake of joining. Another thing, even if you have to go back to your origin country, your H1B visa is still usable. You just need to get a job offer. Infact while you are out of US, that time period is also not counted towards your H1B time left. One last thing, go to a immigration lawyer (generally they charge $100 per hour) and discuss with them, it will give you the most authentic information about how to go around this situation. Worst case, go back to your origin country and do a startup ;).

Mz 14y ago

I think part of your mistake was in declining two other offers. I don't see where you have explained why you did that, knowing you had a visa issue. You created a situation where you were desperate. It did not have to be so. Without knowing all the particulars, I will suggest that you should have emailed them prior to declining the other offers and said "I need a firm start date and formal/official hire letter by X time (say 48 hours). If that is not possible, due to my visa situation, I will have no choice but to accept one of these other offers." If staying in the U.S. was the most important thing, you should have made sure your choices aligned with that. If getting a particular "dream" job was more critical and you were willing to gamble with being deported if it fell through, that gamble is on you if it does not work out. If there is some other reason you made this unfortunate series of choices, you need to use this as a learning opportunity. (I am guessing you felt some sense of loyalty to them though you did not have a formal offer and then felt they "owed" you loyalty in return for the personal sacrifice you made out of loyalty to them. If so, it was a misplaced and unrealistic sentiment.) I will suggest you take some of the other advice being offered on how to try to salvage the situation and also pick up a couple of books on negotiating. "Getting to yes" and "The mind and heart of the negotiator" are both good. The first is a quick read, so you might want to start there if you haven't seen it before as it might help you now, with your current situation. The second is meatier and more of a long term investment. Best of luck.