5 ms·

Open-plan isn't as much of a disaster as it is just simply not useful for all types of work. No matter how much people complain about open-plan, it is useful to

Open-plan isn't as much of a disaster as it is just simply not useful for all types of work. No matter how much people complain about open-plan, it is useful to be nearby people you are working on a project with. If you erect walls around every employee and give them doors, not only does it cost astronomically more, it is not useful for a quick question. That said, it does seem like the pendulum is moving back toward privacy in offices, though what that will look like is anybody's guess. I for one am a fan of the office design concept known as Activity Based Working, where the work areas provided are the one's that are most conducive to your particular company's need. Not all companies, and not all tasks are best served by either having all open or all closed workspaces. Instead, offering a variety of places for employees to use seems most prudent - but again, only offering things your employees need. So if you don't need an executive boardroom, don't add one to you plan as it will just go unused.

dhugiaskmak 14y ago
quick question There need to be library rules about this office behavior, too. The road to hell is paved with "quick questions".
- sdoering 14y ago
  Oh yeah. The problem is, that the questioner normally does not know, what his/her quick question means in terms of time lost for the maker (be it a writer, coder, anyone who makes things). And in my experience educating them does not help, as long, as the managers are resistant. I had a lot experiences, were the managers came again and again with this sort of behavior and whatever I did to educate (or show) people, that I am in a "do not disturb"-moment was fruitless. Headphones == tap on shoulder. Hood of jacket == tap on shoulder + strange look. If the culture, set by managers does not value makers, you are doomed. And educating managers, who live and breath a meeting, question work-style is really not easy. If a manger has never been a maker, you are lost. You won't change their minds. Really, me? I have given up... as sad as it is.
  - kalms 14y ago
    An idea might be to work from home, if you need to focus. State why you're working from home before doing it, so people know not to disturb you via IM, phone or whatever.
    - sdoering 14y ago
      Well, that might work - if companies allow working from home. In Germany a lot of companies don't allow this, as this would mean loosing control, how long a worker is actually working. A lot of corporate culture here is not so much result-focused, but sitting on your back, doing your time. And in a lot of cases, this might work. If I were the typical product manager, this would work. But having found the bliss of automating things via scripting, I feel more and more like a maker and can more and more understand, not to disturb the makers and what it costs to be the disturber. But here most product managers are more managers, then makers - so the live and breath a manager-schedule, being able to cope with interruptions quite easily. So no problem for them, but a problem for our developers (and to some extent guys like me)... ... but as it is mostly my problem (and has been in previous gigs as well), it is something that I have to deal with obviously, as I am part of a minority here.
      - kalms 14y ago
        Move a bit further north. I'm in Denmark, and here's a great culture when it comes to getting things done.
        sdoering 14y ago
        Thanks for the tip. But living in our own home here results in being tied to this region (at least for a while). The situation is not so bad, that it kills me right now, but I will keep looking - and using my time, learning some new things while "doing my time in front of a monitor" ;-)
epsylon 14y ago
>it is useful to be nearby people you are working on a project with I can think of a few reasons why I disagree with this. - Your peak productivity can only be reached if you are not disturbed every five minutes from the work you are doing on your computer. We all know that focus is important, and indeed it is hard to focus in a noisy environment. I remember that the guys at GitHub have some kind of "no live talk" rule : if you need to speak to someone, do it on the internal chat room, even if he's litterally 1 meter away from you. It has several advantages : you can choose when you want to read messages and when you want to reply to them. If you're in the middle of a hardcore debugging session, you are free to continue. It also has the big advantage that chat can be recorded and reviewed and searched at a later date : live speech can't — or at least not easily. - On the other hand, if you're in the phase of a project where you need a lot of interaction with other people and where it would be to cumbersome to do it via chat, like when you're trying to design your architecture, or when trying to agree on rules, specs, etc... Then just set up a meeting : that's what they are for.
abeppu 14y ago
I can buy that there's a lot of benefit in there being low barriers to communicating with your coworkers ... but I don't think talking in meat-space in your open-plan office is the best way to fill that niche. My teammates and I are always in irc (and campfire or whatever would meet the same need). Conversations can be archived for later reference, people on different continents can participate, you can drop links to gists of code or log lines, and you can have a handy place for bots to tell you when the build is broken, or when a deploy is happening, or whatever. Things that need to be private can actually be private conversations, without conspicuously grabbing someone and walking to a glass-walled conference room. Plus, when you're not actively part of a conversation, you can easily ignore it and actually work. Being able to get a quick answer to a question is important. Being able to ask my question in a way that only distracts the person to whom it is addressed, and in a way that allows them to defer answering until they're at a natural stopping point makes us all more productive. As does being able to save the answer so I never have to bug anyone for that question again, or even share it when other people encounter the same issue.
- stevesearer 14y ago
  Right, I don't think being interrupted constantly is an awesome thing either, and agree that there are some great technology solutions to cut down on these sorts of interruptions. But I still believe that proximity is a useful feature of open plan layouts. Having an "open plan" for a smaller team - say under 10 - is probably a good way to go. That way each team can develop rules like this 'Library Rules' idea, or a more interruptive one if thats the way they feel they get more work done.

dhugiaskmak 14y ago

quick question There need to be library rules about this office behavior, too. The road to hell is paved with "quick questions".

sdoering 14y ago
Oh yeah. The problem is, that the questioner normally does not know, what his/her quick question means in terms of time lost for the maker (be it a writer, coder, anyone who makes things). And in my experience educating them does not help, as long, as the managers are resistant. I had a lot experiences, were the managers came again and again with this sort of behavior and whatever I did to educate (or show) people, that I am in a "do not disturb"-moment was fruitless. Headphones == tap on shoulder. Hood of jacket == tap on shoulder + strange look. If the culture, set by managers does not value makers, you are doomed. And educating managers, who live and breath a meeting, question work-style is really not easy. If a manger has never been a maker, you are lost. You won't change their minds. Really, me? I have given up... as sad as it is.
- kalms 14y ago
  An idea might be to work from home, if you need to focus. State why you're working from home before doing it, so people know not to disturb you via IM, phone or whatever.
  - sdoering 14y ago
    Well, that might work - if companies allow working from home. In Germany a lot of companies don't allow this, as this would mean loosing control, how long a worker is actually working. A lot of corporate culture here is not so much result-focused, but sitting on your back, doing your time. And in a lot of cases, this might work. If I were the typical product manager, this would work. But having found the bliss of automating things via scripting, I feel more and more like a maker and can more and more understand, not to disturb the makers and what it costs to be the disturber. But here most product managers are more managers, then makers - so the live and breath a manager-schedule, being able to cope with interruptions quite easily. So no problem for them, but a problem for our developers (and to some extent guys like me)... ... but as it is mostly my problem (and has been in previous gigs as well), it is something that I have to deal with obviously, as I am part of a minority here.
    - kalms 14y ago
      Move a bit further north. I'm in Denmark, and here's a great culture when it comes to getting things done.
      - sdoering 14y ago
        Thanks for the tip. But living in our own home here results in being tied to this region (at least for a while). The situation is not so bad, that it kills me right now, but I will keep looking - and using my time, learning some new things while "doing my time in front of a monitor" ;-)

epsylon 14y ago

>it is useful to be nearby people you are working on a project with I can think of a few reasons why I disagree with this. - Your peak productivity can only be reached if you are not disturbed every five minutes from the work you are doing on your computer. We all know that focus is important, and indeed it is hard to focus in a noisy environment. I remember that the guys at GitHub have some kind of "no live talk" rule : if you need to speak to someone, do it on the internal chat room, even if he's litterally 1 meter away from you. It has several advantages : you can choose when you want to read messages and when you want to reply to them. If you're in the middle of a hardcore debugging session, you are free to continue. It also has the big advantage that chat can be recorded and reviewed and searched at a later date : live speech can't — or at least not easily. - On the other hand, if you're in the phase of a project where you need a lot of interaction with other people and where it would be to cumbersome to do it via chat, like when you're trying to design your architecture, or when trying to agree on rules, specs, etc... Then just set up a meeting : that's what they are for.

abeppu 14y ago

I can buy that there's a lot of benefit in there being low barriers to communicating with your coworkers ... but I don't think talking in meat-space in your open-plan office is the best way to fill that niche. My teammates and I are always in irc (and campfire or whatever would meet the same need). Conversations can be archived for later reference, people on different continents can participate, you can drop links to gists of code or log lines, and you can have a handy place for bots to tell you when the build is broken, or when a deploy is happening, or whatever. Things that need to be private can actually be private conversations, without conspicuously grabbing someone and walking to a glass-walled conference room. Plus, when you're not actively part of a conversation, you can easily ignore it and actually work. Being able to get a quick answer to a question is important. Being able to ask my question in a way that only distracts the person to whom it is addressed, and in a way that allows them to defer answering until they're at a natural stopping point makes us all more productive. As does being able to save the answer so I never have to bug anyone for that question again, or even share it when other people encounter the same issue.

stevesearer 14y ago
Right, I don't think being interrupted constantly is an awesome thing either, and agree that there are some great technology solutions to cut down on these sorts of interruptions. But I still believe that proximity is a useful feature of open plan layouts. Having an "open plan" for a smaller team - say under 10 - is probably a good way to go. That way each team can develop rules like this 'Library Rules' idea, or a more interruptive one if thats the way they feel they get more work done.