4 ms·

ATProto and its advocates increasingly sound like all the crypto-based decentralized platforms that failed. The difference is that crypto people actually had re

ATProto and its advocates increasingly sound like all the crypto-based decentralized platforms that failed. The difference is that crypto people actually had reasons to run nodes, they got paid to, while ATProto expects enthusiasts to do so for the love of the game or act like bluesky and have 99% of the "decentralized" platform on a centralized node. It never catches on with application developers because it requires you to already worship the protocol and build around it.

andunie 2mo ago
I don't think anyone ever got paid to "run nodes".
- LoganDark 2mo ago
  I think what they're talking about is like how bitcoin miners get paid in bitcoin for mining
pfraze 2mo ago
We don't even get paid to be in this cult, that's how organic it is
- verdverm 2mo ago
  the cultiness is why I left crypto and atproto, it plagues many great ideas by creating in and out groups around opinions on the right way to do things
  - pfraze 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      I'm not sure why you always feel the need to attempt to troll me personally on HN like this. Last time you did, HN flagged your reply. We do not have to agree, but we can be civil. For HN reader context, Paul (Bsky CTO) and I have discussed the protocol and permission system IRL and have different visions. My sense it that microblogging platforms like X/Bluesky condition people to discourse in ways online they would not in the physical world, though I have encountered online behaviors manifesting in the real world in recent years. ymmv, I have left them all completely and have a much better mental state since.
      - pfraze 2mo ago
        You replied to me, man
        verdverm 2mo ago
        I did not author it as a personal attack though, apologies if it came through it that way.
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
    - crossroadsguy 2mo ago
      Wow. Irrespective of what the other commenter did to you outside of this thread (assuming you two have a history) your comments (this and others) here feel indeed like trolling and almost egging. Someone mentioned you are the CTO at BSKY, is this true? (Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49029317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49029317) Are you the CTO? If you are then this just feels like a red flag and kind of tells me as a user to look at this protocol/ecosystem (which truly is BSKY at the moment) with much caution.
  - blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
    Really strange, considering there’s more debate, disagreement, and lack of conformity in atproto than I’ve ever seen in crypto. I think you might mean, “people who disagree with me intensely because they believe strongly in the way they view things.” Atproto is very, very far from a cult. It is a bunch of poasters, though, and nobody should be surprised when a social protocol has a bunch of, well, really social people in its leadership, and you shouldn’t expect them to act like senior leadership of Intel, IBM, or Nvidia. The fact Paul makes jokes on a social forum at or with people is a reminder that he’s a human. He’s smart, passionate, nerdy, talented, and sometimes extremely annoying, much like everyone else here, and I’m GLAD the leadership of the company and the protocol are as engaged with the community as they are. It’s a social protocol, for god’s sake. Remember when everyone would complain that the people who ran Twitter would never use it? I do, and just because Elon is down the K-hole and a posting menace doesn’t mean the criticism was incorrect.
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      I hope you will agree that Paul's personal attacks towards me are unacceptable and unbecoming for the CTO of Bluesky. This is not the first time, I hope it is the last. (see his peer comment flagged by the community here)
- Striving7340 2mo ago
  Apologies if "worship" came across as calling you a cult, but it doesn't seem that you took what I said too seriously either. Good luck on ATProto, certainly don't want to deal with this kind of replies from you or Dan every time criticism or concerns come up, maybe once the protocol leaves BlueSky, but let me guess, it's planned for some point in the far future like every other concern?
  - polymer8563 2mo ago
    Seriously, the entire separation of Bluesky from ATProto not happening is my main reason for not trusting it at all. You can't have a protocol owned by a for-profit entity and seriously call it "open"
    - steveklabnik 2mo ago
      https://atproto.com/blog/kicking-off-the-atp-working-group https://atproto.com/blog/kicking-off-the-atp-working-group https://docs.bsky.app/blog/plc-directory-org https://docs.bsky.app/blog/plc-directory-org
      - polymer8563 2mo ago
        None of these make ATProto removed from Bluesky, the working group scope is not clear from the article either.
    - blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
      Huh. Tell that to LSP, QUIC, SPDY, GraphQL, WebRTC, BitTorrent, HTTP/2, and other protocols. I guess they weren’t “open” either for the first 5-10 years of their existence either? Weird.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        Yes? Correct?
  - blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
- polymer8563 2mo ago
  You do get paid, you're the CTO of Bluesky, are you not?
  - secretaboutbox 2mo ago
    he's just making a cult joke. it's okay to be silly sometimes.
FatFingers23 2mo ago
I came out to have a good time and I’m honestly feeling so attacked right now

andunie 2mo ago

I don't think anyone ever got paid to "run nodes".

LoganDark 2mo ago
I think what they're talking about is like how bitcoin miners get paid in bitcoin for mining

pfraze 2mo ago

We don't even get paid to be in this cult, that's how organic it is

verdverm 2mo ago
the cultiness is why I left crypto and atproto, it plagues many great ideas by creating in and out groups around opinions on the right way to do things
- pfraze 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    I'm not sure why you always feel the need to attempt to troll me personally on HN like this. Last time you did, HN flagged your reply. We do not have to agree, but we can be civil. For HN reader context, Paul (Bsky CTO) and I have discussed the protocol and permission system IRL and have different visions. My sense it that microblogging platforms like X/Bluesky condition people to discourse in ways online they would not in the physical world, though I have encountered online behaviors manifesting in the real world in recent years. ymmv, I have left them all completely and have a much better mental state since.
    - pfraze 2mo ago
      You replied to me, man
      - verdverm 2mo ago
        I did not author it as a personal attack though, apologies if it came through it that way.
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
  - crossroadsguy 2mo ago
    Wow. Irrespective of what the other commenter did to you outside of this thread (assuming you two have a history) your comments (this and others) here feel indeed like trolling and almost egging. Someone mentioned you are the CTO at BSKY, is this true? (Here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49029317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49029317) Are you the CTO? If you are then this just feels like a red flag and kind of tells me as a user to look at this protocol/ecosystem (which truly is BSKY at the moment) with much caution.
- blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
  Really strange, considering there’s more debate, disagreement, and lack of conformity in atproto than I’ve ever seen in crypto. I think you might mean, “people who disagree with me intensely because they believe strongly in the way they view things.” Atproto is very, very far from a cult. It is a bunch of poasters, though, and nobody should be surprised when a social protocol has a bunch of, well, really social people in its leadership, and you shouldn’t expect them to act like senior leadership of Intel, IBM, or Nvidia. The fact Paul makes jokes on a social forum at or with people is a reminder that he’s a human. He’s smart, passionate, nerdy, talented, and sometimes extremely annoying, much like everyone else here, and I’m GLAD the leadership of the company and the protocol are as engaged with the community as they are. It’s a social protocol, for god’s sake. Remember when everyone would complain that the people who ran Twitter would never use it? I do, and just because Elon is down the K-hole and a posting menace doesn’t mean the criticism was incorrect.
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    I hope you will agree that Paul's personal attacks towards me are unacceptable and unbecoming for the CTO of Bluesky. This is not the first time, I hope it is the last. (see his peer comment flagged by the community here)
Striving7340 2mo ago
Apologies if "worship" came across as calling you a cult, but it doesn't seem that you took what I said too seriously either. Good luck on ATProto, certainly don't want to deal with this kind of replies from you or Dan every time criticism or concerns come up, maybe once the protocol leaves BlueSky, but let me guess, it's planned for some point in the far future like every other concern?
- polymer8563 2mo ago
  Seriously, the entire separation of Bluesky from ATProto not happening is my main reason for not trusting it at all. You can't have a protocol owned by a for-profit entity and seriously call it "open"
  - steveklabnik 2mo ago
    https://atproto.com/blog/kicking-off-the-atp-working-group https://atproto.com/blog/kicking-off-the-atp-working-group https://docs.bsky.app/blog/plc-directory-org https://docs.bsky.app/blog/plc-directory-org
    - polymer8563 2mo ago
      None of these make ATProto removed from Bluesky, the working group scope is not clear from the article either.
  - blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
    Huh. Tell that to LSP, QUIC, SPDY, GraphQL, WebRTC, BitTorrent, HTTP/2, and other protocols. I guess they weren’t “open” either for the first 5-10 years of their existence either? Weird.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      Yes? Correct?
- blackqueeriroh 2mo ago
polymer8563 2mo ago
You do get paid, you're the CTO of Bluesky, are you not?
- secretaboutbox 2mo ago
  he's just making a cult joke. it's okay to be silly sometimes.

FatFingers23 2mo ago

I came out to have a good time and I’m honestly feeling so attacked right now