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> In some cases borders may overlap without making it an incorrect tagging. It may be result of agreement between countries to administer area together or to ma

> In some cases borders may overlap without making it an incorrect tagging. It may be result of agreement between countries to administer area together or to mark areas not controlled by any country, with both claiming it. Fun fact: when you think of boundary disputes, two things tend to be assumed. One, this only happens in 'certain' countries. Two, this always means more than one country claims the same piece of land. As for one: even the Netherlands and Germany claim the same bit of sea. Boundary status: unresolved (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/19478817#map=12/53.5660/6.6714 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/19478817#map=12/53.56...), but don't worry, we're friends and allies these days. As for two: because of complex reasons to with their eventual bullshit bargaining position, there are several slivers of land wedged between the respectively claimed borders of Serbia and Croatia which belong to… nobody¹ (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/19478817 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/19478817). Although the local Serbian border patrols will gladly point their rifles in your general direction to point out that this does not, in fact, mean you get to be there as far as they're concerned. 1: Head-line grabbing claims by assorted dreamers notwithstanding; hence Verdis.

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munk-a 2mo ago
As an excellent example of #2 we've got Bir Tawil and the Halaib Triangle - both exist along the Sudanese-Egyptian border. Two different historical border drawings have been presented which each argue that the Halaib Triangle belongs to a different country and the triangle has 27k inhabitants. Funnily enough, each map that yields that valuable chunk of land to each country actually yields that Bir Tawil should be possessed by the other country (and Bir Tawil is comparatively worthless). As a result neither country claims Bir Tawil since it could be seen as an admission that the other country has a rightful claim to Halaib Triangle. Usually these weird chunks of land that lay unclaimed are usually the result of agreements or contests around more valuable chunks of land that cause voids in the border - sometimes just due to historical oversight.
- BrenBarn 2mo ago
  Bir Tawil has gotta be the greatest boundary oddity out there.
somat 2mo ago
My current favorite boundary dispute is between California and Nevada. California entered the union in 1850 and it's north-eastern boundary was defined a specific way(120 degrees west of Greenwich), Nevada entered 14 years later and it's western boundary was defined with a different method(43 degrees west of Washington), at the time it was thought these two methods were equivalent, but this was later proved otherwise. It appears the main strip got resolved but there is still a weird triangular strip of land on the diagonal claimed by both sides. There were also a number of surveying mistakes, but the root of the problem appears to be the accepted but incompatible definitions. It turns out that congress has no authority to change state borders once they are set(Somehow this both surprised me and made total sense at the same time), so the states themselves have to resolve it. There is currently an "agreement" on how to interpret the border, but neither state has changed it's constitution so the dispute is still technically ongoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary...
- madcaptenor 2mo ago
  Wait, so it was actually believed that the Washington meridian just happened to fall exactly on an integer number of degrees (120-43 =77) west of Greenwich?
  - kps 2mo ago
    Presumably defined rather than just happened, but not surveyed exactly enough. The US Capitol building is at 77.009°W.
    - madcaptenor 2mo ago
      I'm guessing this is a coincidence, though; the Capitol is also, famously, on a Hill.
  - somat 2mo ago
    It is close, and if you consider Washington as a district there is a meridian exactly 77 degrees west somewhere in there. But I am here eyeballing maps and if the "Washington meridian" is considered the point of the capital it is ~ 1000 feet west of -77.0, should have chosen Stanton park. Seeing as Washington was a planned city I wonder if the capitol point was supposed to be -77.0 west but limitations in surveying accuracy put it where it is. A thousand foot error is not bad for 1800. In fact the very public line at Greenwich is off by ~ 50 feet. On the subject of eyeballing maps are there any online openstreetmap derivatives that have better cartography tools? (crosshair, lat long at specific point, distance and bearing lines, etc) I probably could install qgis for it, and osmand has a bunch of these tools. but the default osm page sort of sucks here.

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munk-a 2mo ago

As an excellent example of #2 we've got Bir Tawil and the Halaib Triangle - both exist along the Sudanese-Egyptian border. Two different historical border drawings have been presented which each argue that the Halaib Triangle belongs to a different country and the triangle has 27k inhabitants. Funnily enough, each map that yields that valuable chunk of land to each country actually yields that Bir Tawil should be possessed by the other country (and Bir Tawil is comparatively worthless). As a result neither country claims Bir Tawil since it could be seen as an admission that the other country has a rightful claim to Halaib Triangle. Usually these weird chunks of land that lay unclaimed are usually the result of agreements or contests around more valuable chunks of land that cause voids in the border - sometimes just due to historical oversight.

BrenBarn 2mo ago
Bir Tawil has gotta be the greatest boundary oddity out there.

somat 2mo ago

My current favorite boundary dispute is between California and Nevada. California entered the union in 1850 and it's north-eastern boundary was defined a specific way(120 degrees west of Greenwich), Nevada entered 14 years later and it's western boundary was defined with a different method(43 degrees west of Washington), at the time it was thought these two methods were equivalent, but this was later proved otherwise. It appears the main strip got resolved but there is still a weird triangular strip of land on the diagonal claimed by both sides. There were also a number of surveying mistakes, but the root of the problem appears to be the accepted but incompatible definitions. It turns out that congress has no authority to change state borders once they are set(Somehow this both surprised me and made total sense at the same time), so the states themselves have to resolve it. There is currently an "agreement" on how to interpret the border, but neither state has changed it's constitution so the dispute is still technically ongoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary...

madcaptenor 2mo ago
Wait, so it was actually believed that the Washington meridian just happened to fall exactly on an integer number of degrees (120-43 =77) west of Greenwich?
- kps 2mo ago
  Presumably defined rather than just happened, but not surveyed exactly enough. The US Capitol building is at 77.009°W.
  - madcaptenor 2mo ago
    I'm guessing this is a coincidence, though; the Capitol is also, famously, on a Hill.
- somat 2mo ago
  It is close, and if you consider Washington as a district there is a meridian exactly 77 degrees west somewhere in there. But I am here eyeballing maps and if the "Washington meridian" is considered the point of the capital it is ~ 1000 feet west of -77.0, should have chosen Stanton park. Seeing as Washington was a planned city I wonder if the capitol point was supposed to be -77.0 west but limitations in surveying accuracy put it where it is. A thousand foot error is not bad for 1800. In fact the very public line at Greenwich is off by ~ 50 feet. On the subject of eyeballing maps are there any online openstreetmap derivatives that have better cartography tools? (crosshair, lat long at specific point, distance and bearing lines, etc) I probably could install qgis for it, and osmand has a bunch of these tools. but the default osm page sort of sucks here.