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Different priorities. GrapheneOS prioritizes very strong security (inside a very specific model that includes treating the user as an attack vector to be prote

Different priorities. GrapheneOS prioritizes very strong security (inside a very specific model that includes treating the user as an attack vector to be protected against). Fairphone prioritizes repairable hardware (and actually makes their own hardware). On a finite budget (of both money and time and people), prioritizing either one of these will undermine the other.

microtonal 3mo ago
and actually makes their own hardware Fairphone hardware and software is developed/maintained by a Chinese ODM (T2Mobile).
warrantisall 3mo ago
[flagged]
- preisschild 3mo ago
  You can't have good privacy without good security
  - warrantisall 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - stymaar 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - microtonal 3mo ago
        Fully agree. In the end everybody has to make their own threat assessment and make their choices based on that. I think research is particularly important to unravel what data leakage there are in various phones and apps, so that people can make informed choices. I think this kind of information presented presented in a neutral way is sorely missing.
    - microtonal 3mo ago
      It turns out that companies also 'attack' your phones to get your data. E.g. at some point Facebook/Yandex apps opened localhost sockets for tracking pixel code to connect to: https://localmess.github.io/ https://localmess.github.io/
      - grapheneos 3mo ago
        GrapheneOS largely prevented it for Vanadium before this came to light and fully fixed it long before Chromium did. Android 17 prevents cross-profile loopback connections, which is one of many important privacy improvements in it. Android 17 fixed a massive number of privacy weaknesses including vulnerabilities which will not have patches backported. Only a subset of High and Critical severity patches are backported to older Android releases. Only a subset of that subset are shipped by /e/ despite claiming to provide the latest patch level.
    - grapheneos 3mo ago
      We definitely don't see privacy and security as binary. Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- grapheneos 3mo ago
  Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.
grapheneos 3mo ago
No, GrapheneOS is a privacy project. Privacy depends on security which is the only reason we work on security too. /e/ and Fairphone both have much worse privacy than the standard Android Open Source Project on decent hardware. They go in the opposite direction from AOSP which GrapheneOS does for privacy. Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.

microtonal 3mo ago

and actually makes their own hardware Fairphone hardware and software is developed/maintained by a Chinese ODM (T2Mobile).

warrantisall 3mo ago

[flagged]

preisschild 3mo ago
You can't have good privacy without good security
- warrantisall 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - stymaar 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - microtonal 3mo ago
      Fully agree. In the end everybody has to make their own threat assessment and make their choices based on that. I think research is particularly important to unravel what data leakage there are in various phones and apps, so that people can make informed choices. I think this kind of information presented presented in a neutral way is sorely missing.
  - microtonal 3mo ago
    It turns out that companies also 'attack' your phones to get your data. E.g. at some point Facebook/Yandex apps opened localhost sockets for tracking pixel code to connect to: https://localmess.github.io/ https://localmess.github.io/
    - grapheneos 3mo ago
      GrapheneOS largely prevented it for Vanadium before this came to light and fully fixed it long before Chromium did. Android 17 prevents cross-profile loopback connections, which is one of many important privacy improvements in it. Android 17 fixed a massive number of privacy weaknesses including vulnerabilities which will not have patches backported. Only a subset of High and Critical severity patches are backported to older Android releases. Only a subset of that subset are shipped by /e/ despite claiming to provide the latest patch level.
  - grapheneos 3mo ago
    We definitely don't see privacy and security as binary. Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
grapheneos 3mo ago
Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.

grapheneos 3mo ago

No, GrapheneOS is a privacy project. Privacy depends on security which is the only reason we work on security too. /e/ and Fairphone both have much worse privacy than the standard Android Open Source Project on decent hardware. They go in the opposite direction from AOSP which GrapheneOS does for privacy. Privacy depends on fixing widely abused privacy weaknesses by patching privacy vulnerabilities and shipping major privacy improvements. /e/ is missing many standard Android privacy patches and protections. Privacy also depends on security to avoid it being bypassed. It's also missing many of the standard Android security patches and protections. GrapheneOS preserves the baseline and makes major privacy and security improvements along with being far better at patching vulnerabilities rather than far worse. /e/ and Fairphone don't do the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security by keeping up with updates. Both are missing crucial standard patches and protections needed against many real world adversaries including widespread privacy abuse by apps.