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I think you're misunderstanding "codeberg is political". Everything is political, FOSS is political, GitHub is also political. When people say "We're not poli

I think you're misunderstanding "codeberg is political". Everything is political, FOSS is political, GitHub is also political. When people say "We're not political", or "That's not political". What they're actually saying is that it's within my own politics.

altmanaltman 2mo ago
No I understand that. But the point I am making is saying that is much stronger than saying "our policy says we won't host crypto projects going forward". The latter is fine, any service provider can set terms as they fit within the law. But if you claim you are highly political, you must invite further questions into it. How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influences? If we give the organization a character by calling it political, we create an obligation to explain further. Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive.
- overfeed 2mo ago
  > How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influence They don't have to. > Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive. D.E.I. is out right now. Fortunately, Codeberg helpfully funds Forgejo, so all the non-eligible projects can benefit from self-hosting.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
tbrownaw 2mo ago
No, there's a big difference between "net effects are not guaranteed to be perfectly neutral" and "I am going to intentionally put my thumb on the scale". The position that everything is political so therefore opinions are mandatory intentionally conflates these things.
- Forgeties79 2mo ago
  You’re the one who seems to be conflating things - everything is political =/= opinions are mandatory.
  - tbrownaw 2mo ago
    The comment I was replying to said > When people say "We're not political", or "That's not political". What they're actually saying is that it's within my own politics. That assertion is incorrect. Said incorrect assertion is derived from the conflation I called out.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - orbital-decay 2mo ago
    Reminder that you're commenting on the decision to make someone's political opinion against crypto mandatory for Codeberg
    - Forgeties79 2mo ago
      They’re banning crypto projects. There’s no screening for your opinion on crypto. Let’s not make this into something it isn’t.
causalmodels 2mo ago
My issue with this is not that codeberg and its members want to uphold a certain set of political beliefs. Any private organization is free to do that. It's that they haven't defined the rule that's supposed to encode those beliefs. As written, the rule is a non-exhaustive example of "content that harms codeberg's reputation". Someone asked in the pr whether "cryptocurrency-related" is defined anywhere and it merged without an answer. The responses to wording concerns was essentially they will figure it out later. Moves like this don't fill me with confidence.
- tkel 2mo ago
  You're still not understanding the point. It's not about an organization being "private" or "public" (what does "private" even mean?). Everything is political. When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political, obscuring/obfuscating their actual underlying politics, and everything else is pushed outside of it. It is an attempt to create strict boundaries around the limits of discussion and action, which is itself a political act!
  - fluoridation 2mo ago
    >When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political What are you talking about? Whether something is allowed to be challenged has nothing to do with whether it's political. Actually, what even is not allowed to be challenged? I struggle to come up with a single example.
    - tkel 2mo ago
      Yes, in communities that try to claim that certain things are "political" and certain things are "not political", "banning cryptocurrency" could be rejected on the basis that it is "political". The point is that saying something like "we don't do politics" is absurd. There is always an underlying politics, even if it has been normalized or obfuscated, repressed or unexamined. Reread my above comment.
bigstrat2003 2mo ago
No dude. Most things are not, in fact, political. When I enjoy a meal, that isn't political. When I hang out with my family and friends, that isn't political. When I sit down to read a nice book with a cup of cocoa, that isn't political. The notion that "everything is political" is an indicator that someone has an extremely toxic relationship with politics. Basically you're projecting your unhealthy level of political engagement onto everyone else, and insisting that we all have that manner of thinking (but are just denying it to score political points). Well that isn't true, and for your own sake I encourage you to stop that. You'll be much happier when you stop making life about politics.
- wolvesechoes 2mo ago
  But the moment you step into social realm it becomes political, as Mr. Aristotle said.
  - fluoridation 2mo ago
    What do you mean? If I talk to a friend about stargazing that's political? If a group of people meet up to play a game of cards that's political?
    - notrealyme123 2mo ago
      So I am very pedantic here, but yes it "can" be seen as political. You made the decision that your free time is more important than working and generating value. I understand "everything is political" more in a sense that we as a society have the burden to shape our own rules, and saying "I only live in the society, but ignore the burden of making rules" is not really possible. In that case you actively decide to let someone else decide for you.
      - fluoridation 2mo ago
        >You made the decision that your free time is more important than working and generating value. How is that political? It's just a decision based on competing priorities. By this interpretation an animal's decision to either sleep or eat is also political.
pluralmonad 2mo ago
This seems like a useless definition of political.
vintermann 2mo ago
Not every question is political, so it's often fine to say "that's not a political question". But which questions are apolitical questions, is itself a political question.

altmanaltman 2mo ago

No I understand that. But the point I am making is saying that is much stronger than saying "our policy says we won't host crypto projects going forward". The latter is fine, any service provider can set terms as they fit within the law. But if you claim you are highly political, you must invite further questions into it. How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influences? If we give the organization a character by calling it political, we create an obligation to explain further. Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive.

overfeed 2mo ago
> How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influence They don't have to. > Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive. D.E.I. is out right now. Fortunately, Codeberg helpfully funds Forgejo, so all the non-eligible projects can benefit from self-hosting.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

tbrownaw 2mo ago

No, there's a big difference between "net effects are not guaranteed to be perfectly neutral" and "I am going to intentionally put my thumb on the scale". The position that everything is political so therefore opinions are mandatory intentionally conflates these things.

Forgeties79 2mo ago
You’re the one who seems to be conflating things - everything is political =/= opinions are mandatory.
- tbrownaw 2mo ago
  The comment I was replying to said > When people say "We're not political", or "That's not political". What they're actually saying is that it's within my own politics. That assertion is incorrect. Said incorrect assertion is derived from the conflation I called out.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- orbital-decay 2mo ago
  Reminder that you're commenting on the decision to make someone's political opinion against crypto mandatory for Codeberg
  - Forgeties79 2mo ago
    They’re banning crypto projects. There’s no screening for your opinion on crypto. Let’s not make this into something it isn’t.

causalmodels 2mo ago

My issue with this is not that codeberg and its members want to uphold a certain set of political beliefs. Any private organization is free to do that. It's that they haven't defined the rule that's supposed to encode those beliefs. As written, the rule is a non-exhaustive example of "content that harms codeberg's reputation". Someone asked in the pr whether "cryptocurrency-related" is defined anywhere and it merged without an answer. The responses to wording concerns was essentially they will figure it out later. Moves like this don't fill me with confidence.

tkel 2mo ago
You're still not understanding the point. It's not about an organization being "private" or "public" (what does "private" even mean?). Everything is political. When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political, obscuring/obfuscating their actual underlying politics, and everything else is pushed outside of it. It is an attempt to create strict boundaries around the limits of discussion and action, which is itself a political act!
- fluoridation 2mo ago
  >When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political What are you talking about? Whether something is allowed to be challenged has nothing to do with whether it's political. Actually, what even is not allowed to be challenged? I struggle to come up with a single example.
  - tkel 2mo ago
    Yes, in communities that try to claim that certain things are "political" and certain things are "not political", "banning cryptocurrency" could be rejected on the basis that it is "political". The point is that saying something like "we don't do politics" is absurd. There is always an underlying politics, even if it has been normalized or obfuscated, repressed or unexamined. Reread my above comment.

bigstrat2003 2mo ago

No dude. Most things are not, in fact, political. When I enjoy a meal, that isn't political. When I hang out with my family and friends, that isn't political. When I sit down to read a nice book with a cup of cocoa, that isn't political. The notion that "everything is political" is an indicator that someone has an extremely toxic relationship with politics. Basically you're projecting your unhealthy level of political engagement onto everyone else, and insisting that we all have that manner of thinking (but are just denying it to score political points). Well that isn't true, and for your own sake I encourage you to stop that. You'll be much happier when you stop making life about politics.

wolvesechoes 2mo ago
But the moment you step into social realm it becomes political, as Mr. Aristotle said.
- fluoridation 2mo ago
  What do you mean? If I talk to a friend about stargazing that's political? If a group of people meet up to play a game of cards that's political?
  - notrealyme123 2mo ago
    So I am very pedantic here, but yes it "can" be seen as political. You made the decision that your free time is more important than working and generating value. I understand "everything is political" more in a sense that we as a society have the burden to shape our own rules, and saying "I only live in the society, but ignore the burden of making rules" is not really possible. In that case you actively decide to let someone else decide for you.
    - fluoridation 2mo ago
      >You made the decision that your free time is more important than working and generating value. How is that political? It's just a decision based on competing priorities. By this interpretation an animal's decision to either sleep or eat is also political.

pluralmonad 2mo ago

This seems like a useless definition of political.

vintermann 2mo ago

Not every question is political, so it's often fine to say "that's not a political question". But which questions are apolitical questions, is itself a political question.