4 ms·

Why are you horrified?

windexh8er 2mo ago
Because ads will no longer look like ads. Model bias from the highest bidder, what fun. This is exactly why OAI and Anthropic enjoy spreading FUD about open weight models.
- MitziMoto 2mo ago
  As far as I can tell, these ads still look like ads, clearly marked as sponsored?
  - nativeit 2mo ago
    > As far as I can tell… This is precisely the problem with the entire notion of putting advertising into these models. You’ll never really know.
    - LordDragonfang 2mo ago
      Yeah, that would be a problem. Luckily, the actual post we're discussing isn't putting any advertising in the model. This is a very important distinction to make -- complaints should be be about what is happening, and should distinguish that from what is not yet happening and should not. Because beyond the maxim that we should try to deal in facts... if OpenAI thinks people can't tell the difference anyways, they'll be justified in thinking they may as well just do the thing they're already being accused of doing.
      - m-s-y 2mo ago
        God forbid we anticipate what could possibly go wrong in an attempt to get ahead of the problem. But I guess waiting for problems to show their ugly heads before acting has never backfired.
      - andersonpico 2mo ago
        > complaints should be be about what is happening Why would you think that? An ad supported product has misaligned incentives, everyone can see that and that's why the confidence erodes from that moment on. You're living in the era in which saying "Stallman was right" is a dead cold take. Every big tech company sold out exactly like the hippies told you they would back when Google was a dream place to work for and Meta was still a twinkle in zuk's eyes.
  - darkwater 2mo ago
    Look at how ads in Google SERP were before 2014 (and they already crossed "we won't put ads" line a few years before) https://www.bmon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/deep-hole-drilling-search-old-600x488.gif https://www.bmon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/deep-hole-... Now, well, if you do the same exact search, at least in my location (and with UBlock disabled) it's frankly a mess but must admit that sponsored links are not even the first thing you see. There is the AI result, then the Wikipedia result, then some random result, then the sponsored block with a flat headline separating it and then the organic results, I presume.
  - Laurel1234 2mo ago
    Frog boiling
- lopatin 2mo ago
  Calling it model bias is as disingenuous as calling newspaper ads media bias.
  - slyrus 2mo ago
    So you’re saying it’s legit?
  - GolfPopper 2mo ago
    Call them both what they are: shit dumped into your mind.
  - port11 2mo ago
    Newspaper ads weren’t targeted specifically to YOU based on what the newspaper knew about YOU.
  - antonvs 2mo ago
    There are plenty of cases where the media, including newspapers, have avoided reporting or other content that would negatively affect their advertisers. So yes, newspaper ads do imply media bias.
  - windexh8er 2mo ago
    Can you change a newspaper ad on the fly?
- iugtmkbdfil834 2mo ago
  Look on the bright side of open local models ahead.
- LordDragonfang 2mo ago
  Genuine question, was this comment written without opening the link? Because I can't see how you've come to this conclusion unless you're skipping several steps. The ads in TFA still look like ads to me.
  - dbdr 2mo ago
    "ads will no longer look like ads" (in the future). Ads are clearly marked in the first step, but will likely be more and more blended over time (or worse, biasing the model and therefore the output itself). That's the logical future, because that's better for the advertiser, which is the paying customer. That already happened on Google search: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003372

Because ads will no longer look like ads. Model bias from the highest bidder, what fun. This is exactly why OAI and Anthropic enjoy spreading FUD about open weight models.

MitziMoto 2mo ago
As far as I can tell, these ads still look like ads, clearly marked as sponsored?
- nativeit 2mo ago
  > As far as I can tell… This is precisely the problem with the entire notion of putting advertising into these models. You’ll never really know.
  - LordDragonfang 2mo ago
    Yeah, that would be a problem. Luckily, the actual post we're discussing isn't putting any advertising in the model. This is a very important distinction to make -- complaints should be be about what is happening, and should distinguish that from what is not yet happening and should not. Because beyond the maxim that we should try to deal in facts... if OpenAI thinks people can't tell the difference anyways, they'll be justified in thinking they may as well just do the thing they're already being accused of doing.
    - m-s-y 2mo ago
      God forbid we anticipate what could possibly go wrong in an attempt to get ahead of the problem. But I guess waiting for problems to show their ugly heads before acting has never backfired.
    - andersonpico 2mo ago
      > complaints should be be about what is happening Why would you think that? An ad supported product has misaligned incentives, everyone can see that and that's why the confidence erodes from that moment on. You're living in the era in which saying "Stallman was right" is a dead cold take. Every big tech company sold out exactly like the hippies told you they would back when Google was a dream place to work for and Meta was still a twinkle in zuk's eyes.
- darkwater 2mo ago
  Look at how ads in Google SERP were before 2014 (and they already crossed "we won't put ads" line a few years before) https://www.bmon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/deep-hole-drilling-search-old-600x488.gif https://www.bmon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/deep-hole-... Now, well, if you do the same exact search, at least in my location (and with UBlock disabled) it's frankly a mess but must admit that sponsored links are not even the first thing you see. There is the AI result, then the Wikipedia result, then some random result, then the sponsored block with a flat headline separating it and then the organic results, I presume.
- Laurel1234 2mo ago
  Frog boiling
lopatin 2mo ago
Calling it model bias is as disingenuous as calling newspaper ads media bias.
- slyrus 2mo ago
  So you’re saying it’s legit?
- GolfPopper 2mo ago
  Call them both what they are: shit dumped into your mind.
- port11 2mo ago
  Newspaper ads weren’t targeted specifically to YOU based on what the newspaper knew about YOU.
- antonvs 2mo ago
  There are plenty of cases where the media, including newspapers, have avoided reporting or other content that would negatively affect their advertisers. So yes, newspaper ads do imply media bias.
- windexh8er 2mo ago
  Can you change a newspaper ad on the fly?
iugtmkbdfil834 2mo ago
Look on the bright side of open local models ahead.
LordDragonfang 2mo ago
Genuine question, was this comment written without opening the link? Because I can't see how you've come to this conclusion unless you're skipping several steps. The ads in TFA still look like ads to me.
- dbdr 2mo ago
  "ads will no longer look like ads" (in the future). Ads are clearly marked in the first step, but will likely be more and more blended over time (or worse, biasing the model and therefore the output itself). That's the logical future, because that's better for the advertiser, which is the paying customer. That already happened on Google search: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49003372