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I think the bigger issue in defining this is that “programming” is too big a task to say whether it got easier or harder. Some YAML formalities now take zero e

I think the bigger issue in defining this is that “programming” is too big a task to say whether it got easier or harder. Some YAML formalities now take zero effort while architectural thinking became way more important and difficult.

Havoc 3mo ago
>architectural thinking became way more important and difficult. Did it though? I think the architectural stuff was always there and was always hard. And still is. I don't buy that it got harder now that you've got a pretty smart AI you can bounce ideas off, ask to investigate stuff, maybe make a quick mockup trivial test of both options on an architectural choice you face, send off to do research etc. ...so in my mind the aggregate {{programming}} got easier because the hard parts are still hard and the trivial parts got AI'd. The only step up in complexity imo is wrangling a bunch of agents. Even very good coders report mental exhaustion from that
- FinnLobsien 3mo ago
  Yes some parts of that are easier with AI, but I think comparatively to other activities, architecture is much harder. And I also think what you describe is true in some contexts where you know exactly what you’re after. You also don’t make architecture decisions in a vacuum, so the decision others make also affect you and you need to sell your decisions to others.
- koakoala 3mo ago
  I agree it hasn't become more difficult conceptually. However, I am finding that the way to get the most out of agents seems to be to bite off bigger chunks than I would've when coding by hand, and try to make up-front decisions to much greater levels of detail than I previously would have before editing code. Previously, I would've only thought through the really important high level choices up front (e.g. things that would affect interfaces with other parts of the system, or 'do I need a queue here' etc). For the smaller minutiae of good code structure, appropriate abstractions etc. I would allow myself flexibility to address those while working through the problem. I found it easier to work at those different levels of granularity in sequence, and the latter one I specifically found easier to see the problem clearly and make a good decision while hand-writing the diff. In that sense, I think good architecture has been made more difficult to practice. For me, at least.

Havoc 3mo ago

>architectural thinking became way more important and difficult. Did it though? I think the architectural stuff was always there and was always hard. And still is. I don't buy that it got harder now that you've got a pretty smart AI you can bounce ideas off, ask to investigate stuff, maybe make a quick mockup trivial test of both options on an architectural choice you face, send off to do research etc. ...so in my mind the aggregate {{programming}} got easier because the hard parts are still hard and the trivial parts got AI'd. The only step up in complexity imo is wrangling a bunch of agents. Even very good coders report mental exhaustion from that

FinnLobsien 3mo ago
Yes some parts of that are easier with AI, but I think comparatively to other activities, architecture is much harder. And I also think what you describe is true in some contexts where you know exactly what you’re after. You also don’t make architecture decisions in a vacuum, so the decision others make also affect you and you need to sell your decisions to others.
koakoala 3mo ago
I agree it hasn't become more difficult conceptually. However, I am finding that the way to get the most out of agents seems to be to bite off bigger chunks than I would've when coding by hand, and try to make up-front decisions to much greater levels of detail than I previously would have before editing code. Previously, I would've only thought through the really important high level choices up front (e.g. things that would affect interfaces with other parts of the system, or 'do I need a queue here' etc). For the smaller minutiae of good code structure, appropriate abstractions etc. I would allow myself flexibility to address those while working through the problem. I found it easier to work at those different levels of granularity in sequence, and the latter one I specifically found easier to see the problem clearly and make a good decision while hand-writing the diff. In that sense, I think good architecture has been made more difficult to practice. For me, at least.