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If you like to dabble in modding or are a game developer, here are some fairly obscure but quite innovative games: Heroes of Might and Magic 4. What REALLY is

by b0rsuk 14y ago

If you like to dabble in modding or are a game developer, here are some fairly obscure but quite innovative games: Heroes of Might and Magic 4. What REALLY is unforgivable in the game is the AI, which - mostly due to time pressure - even its own developers described as "lobotomized". But it has many things new to the serries, including obstacles affecting line of sight in combat, towers that need to be manned (no more turrets that are either too weak or too strong), separate initiative and speed stats (greater flexibility in units). Gone is the notoriously hard to balance Attack Skill, Defense Skill, Spell Power and Knowledge (attack/def got stronger and stronger as turns passed). Heroes4 riped off Master of Magic spell system, which in turn ripped off M:tG spell magic colors. This means that magic schools are actually unique and work in different ways. Heroes 4 is a broken game in a couple of ways, but a library of intriguing mechanics as well. Nox. Easy to mistake for a Diablo clone, Nox by Westwood Studios (neglected by EA) has no random loot, no chance-based dodge or shield block or hit chance, practically no resists. All spells remain useful thorough the game. Nox has many interesting spells and mechanics. It is skill-based instead and combat is very satisfying. The most noticeable thing in the game is its fun line of sight algorithm. In Diablo, you can anticipate big fights because you can see past walls. Here, you can't. Teleglitch is a new game that also has this mechanic. Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. Like Heroes 4, it was sunk by bad AI I believe, but is a great game especially in multiplayer. I would describe it like "Heroes 4 done right". Flying units, spells on adventure map, Master of Magic-like research and magic system, the ability to build towns and roads as well as raze&rebuild neutral structures. If an ice witch passes over land, it's permanently covered in snow. Try that over water or enemy city's crops ! And play board games. Board games have many mechanics unseen in computer games. Try ones like Dominion, Neuroshima Hex, Seasons, or Dungeoneer. The last one may appear like just an improved version of Talisman, but it has one wonderful mechanic. Buffs and positive powers are used from a SEPARATE pool. Normally multiplayer games have a problem where by spending your resources on hostile actions you don't help your cause but make the target of your malice easier to beat for others.

b0rsuk 14y ago
I forgot Laser Squad Nemesis and Frozen Synapse. They have simultaneous turns, and in some ways it's the best of both worlds. You get the ability to plan moves carefully, like in TBS games, but don't get the time artifacts associated with them. Like in RTS games, time flows naturally. Try to distinguish between a shotgun and an automatic rifle in a TBS game. Good luck with that. The same thing is very easy in a game like LSN. I like to compare simultaneous turns to crossbows. Both inventions were very good and have their merits, but (in western world) they came too late to matter. Also, Laser Squad Nemesis is a game designed by original X-COM's designer. It's from 2003, so and has nice high-res 2D graphics.
- bitteralmond 14y ago
  +1 for LSN: back in '04 a friend of mine and I must have spent at least 50 hours playing nothing but the hotseat multiplayer of that game. FS is also a lot of fun, but it just isn't as deep or complex as LSN. Fewer enemy types, less variety in level design. On the flip side, though, this means that most matches are over much quicker than LSN (a one-sided match often took 20-30 minutes, and hotseat games back in the day often took us an hour to finish!)
- nooneelse 14y ago
  Laser Squad Nemesis is a great game. I remember spending too many hours learning and trying to properly implement the lessons of The Grenadier’s Bible.
- scotty79 14y ago
  Anyone fond of Lasersquad (XCOM and such) type games please take a look at the flash game "Mission in Space: the lost colony" http://www.kongregate.com/games/StormAlligator/mission-in-space-the-lost-colony http://www.kongregate.com/games/StormAlligator/mission-in-sp... It has very nice mechanics. I especially like the unlimited shots of opportunity fire (well, limited by the ammo left in the clip) that allow for fun play while being hugely outnumbered.
  - b0rsuk 14y ago
    It looks promising so far. The game actually explains mechanics to me is a good sign, it reminds me of Debian. Another interesting thing is separate action and movement points. I've been thinking about something like that. Basically the idea is you can move your legs separately from your hands.
- voronoff 14y ago
  If you want to talk simultaneous execution games, the original computerized version is probably RoboSport, a 1991 Maxis game. The mechanic is deep enough that it can still be fun to play a few rounds with a friend, despite the utter simplicity of the game.
- jholman 14y ago
ajuc 14y ago
Another very innovative games: - Storm - strategy game, core mechanics was developing your aircraft designs, test-flying them, building them, and defending your flying island with them. Big part of the game was trading in airships parts between factions. It also has arcade 3d-mode fighting system, where you controlled one of your ships, but it was unplayable). - Net Storm - another game on flying islands - also strategy, but gamplay was very different - it was all about building towers, defensive structures and bridges to contain and defeat enemy flying island. It felt like real-time chess, positioning was the most important. It also had nice multiplayer mode. - MAX - another strategy game - this time turn-based. It had nice system of resource extraction - you had to scan ground for resources, also your factories, defence systems, mines, etc had to be connected by pipelines for resources and power to be provided everywhere. So defending pipelines was important.
- RyanZAG 14y ago
  Net Storm only had internet multiplayer in a time when internet multiplayer was very unknown. It is, to me, hands down the most skill involved RTS ever created - requiring both clever maneuvering and fast, correct reactions. It's a shame it didn't take off more than it did. A re-release with better graphics would likely do very well in current competitive RTS game circles, though. Well as long as it had sufficient marketing and very good tutorials. Free to play with in-game purchases for different tower skins would probably be the way to go...
  - ninjin 14y ago
    There is a re-make underway and has been for about two years now [1]. They are making fair progress and I like the graphics. I think their main mistake may be not going for a brower-based version, then again, if the Net Storm legacy lives on, who am I to complain? Also, not sure about the licensing, there were indications of them being closed source a few years ago but I have been unable to find anything explicit, given what happened to the original Net Storm I hope the same mistake will not be repeated. [1]: http://risingstormhq.com/ http://risingstormhq.com/
- polemic 14y ago
aidenn0 14y ago
Okay what is up with Westwood studios. They produced a lot of licensed games, which usually means "crap" but they made Dune II (and of course Command & Conquer), Nox (I had forgotten that one was theirs), and several very solid dungeon-master like games. Also, Dragon Strike was a very enjoyable and different flight-sim style game set in the Dragonlance world.
- cowpewter 14y ago
  Actually a lot of their licensed point-and-click adventures were quite good (showing my age). I recall the Death Gate game (based on the series by Weis and Hickman) being quite good. They also made the Legend of Kyrandia games, which weren't licensed that I know of, but also stick out in my memory as some of the best games in the point-and-click genre that I played as a child. Licensed didn't mean "bad" when it came to Westwood back in the day.
  - aidenn0 14y ago
    I mentioned some licensed games in my list too. EotB 1+2 were both very good DM clones if you're into that sort of thing, but weren't IMO particularly original. Death Gate was Legend, not Westwood, right? Kyrandia were definitely above average P+C adventures, but there were so many good adventure games from that time-period that I find they stick out less.
    - cowpewter 14y ago
      Oh, it was Legend. I don't know why I though it was Westwood for some reason. I definitely have fond memories of the Kyrandia games. I feel like I recall their puzzles were a little more consistently logical than some of the "unless you are psychically bonded to the developer, you must drag every object onto every object in your inventory until something happens" variety that a lot of point-and-clicks suffered from. I still have my copies laying around somewhere...I should play them again and see if they still hold up.

by b0rsuk 14y ago

b0rsuk 14y ago

I forgot Laser Squad Nemesis and Frozen Synapse. They have simultaneous turns, and in some ways it's the best of both worlds. You get the ability to plan moves carefully, like in TBS games, but don't get the time artifacts associated with them. Like in RTS games, time flows naturally. Try to distinguish between a shotgun and an automatic rifle in a TBS game. Good luck with that. The same thing is very easy in a game like LSN. I like to compare simultaneous turns to crossbows. Both inventions were very good and have their merits, but (in western world) they came too late to matter. Also, Laser Squad Nemesis is a game designed by original X-COM's designer. It's from 2003, so and has nice high-res 2D graphics.

bitteralmond 14y ago
+1 for LSN: back in '04 a friend of mine and I must have spent at least 50 hours playing nothing but the hotseat multiplayer of that game. FS is also a lot of fun, but it just isn't as deep or complex as LSN. Fewer enemy types, less variety in level design. On the flip side, though, this means that most matches are over much quicker than LSN (a one-sided match often took 20-30 minutes, and hotseat games back in the day often took us an hour to finish!)
nooneelse 14y ago
Laser Squad Nemesis is a great game. I remember spending too many hours learning and trying to properly implement the lessons of The Grenadier’s Bible.
scotty79 14y ago
Anyone fond of Lasersquad (XCOM and such) type games please take a look at the flash game "Mission in Space: the lost colony" http://www.kongregate.com/games/StormAlligator/mission-in-space-the-lost-colony http://www.kongregate.com/games/StormAlligator/mission-in-sp... It has very nice mechanics. I especially like the unlimited shots of opportunity fire (well, limited by the ammo left in the clip) that allow for fun play while being hugely outnumbered.
- b0rsuk 14y ago
  It looks promising so far. The game actually explains mechanics to me is a good sign, it reminds me of Debian. Another interesting thing is separate action and movement points. I've been thinking about something like that. Basically the idea is you can move your legs separately from your hands.
voronoff 14y ago
If you want to talk simultaneous execution games, the original computerized version is probably RoboSport, a 1991 Maxis game. The mechanic is deep enough that it can still be fun to play a few rounds with a friend, despite the utter simplicity of the game.
jholman 14y ago

ajuc 14y ago

Another very innovative games: - Storm - strategy game, core mechanics was developing your aircraft designs, test-flying them, building them, and defending your flying island with them. Big part of the game was trading in airships parts between factions. It also has arcade 3d-mode fighting system, where you controlled one of your ships, but it was unplayable). - Net Storm - another game on flying islands - also strategy, but gamplay was very different - it was all about building towers, defensive structures and bridges to contain and defeat enemy flying island. It felt like real-time chess, positioning was the most important. It also had nice multiplayer mode. - MAX - another strategy game - this time turn-based. It had nice system of resource extraction - you had to scan ground for resources, also your factories, defence systems, mines, etc had to be connected by pipelines for resources and power to be provided everywhere. So defending pipelines was important.

RyanZAG 14y ago
Net Storm only had internet multiplayer in a time when internet multiplayer was very unknown. It is, to me, hands down the most skill involved RTS ever created - requiring both clever maneuvering and fast, correct reactions. It's a shame it didn't take off more than it did. A re-release with better graphics would likely do very well in current competitive RTS game circles, though. Well as long as it had sufficient marketing and very good tutorials. Free to play with in-game purchases for different tower skins would probably be the way to go...
- ninjin 14y ago
  There is a re-make underway and has been for about two years now [1]. They are making fair progress and I like the graphics. I think their main mistake may be not going for a brower-based version, then again, if the Net Storm legacy lives on, who am I to complain? Also, not sure about the licensing, there were indications of them being closed source a few years ago but I have been unable to find anything explicit, given what happened to the original Net Storm I hope the same mistake will not be repeated. [1]: http://risingstormhq.com/ http://risingstormhq.com/
polemic 14y ago

aidenn0 14y ago

Okay what is up with Westwood studios. They produced a lot of licensed games, which usually means "crap" but they made Dune II (and of course Command & Conquer), Nox (I had forgotten that one was theirs), and several very solid dungeon-master like games. Also, Dragon Strike was a very enjoyable and different flight-sim style game set in the Dragonlance world.

cowpewter 14y ago
Actually a lot of their licensed point-and-click adventures were quite good (showing my age). I recall the Death Gate game (based on the series by Weis and Hickman) being quite good. They also made the Legend of Kyrandia games, which weren't licensed that I know of, but also stick out in my memory as some of the best games in the point-and-click genre that I played as a child. Licensed didn't mean "bad" when it came to Westwood back in the day.
- aidenn0 14y ago
  I mentioned some licensed games in my list too. EotB 1+2 were both very good DM clones if you're into that sort of thing, but weren't IMO particularly original. Death Gate was Legend, not Westwood, right? Kyrandia were definitely above average P+C adventures, but there were so many good adventure games from that time-period that I find they stick out less.
  - cowpewter 14y ago
    Oh, it was Legend. I don't know why I though it was Westwood for some reason. I definitely have fond memories of the Kyrandia games. I feel like I recall their puzzles were a little more consistently logical than some of the "unless you are psychically bonded to the developer, you must drag every object onto every object in your inventory until something happens" variety that a lot of point-and-clicks suffered from. I still have my copies laying around somewhere...I should play them again and see if they still hold up.