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> A compiler is an algorithm and Claude isn't "Algorithm" is not a word with a definition, so I can't say that you're wrong, but I struggle to see how you conc

by qsort 3mo ago

> A compiler is an algorithm and Claude isn't "Algorithm" is not a word with a definition, so I can't say that you're wrong, but I struggle to see how you conceptualize "algorithm" in a way that does include a compiler but does not include a language model. I think the distinction you're trying to draw is better captured by comparing inductive and deductive program synthesis.

armchairhacker 3mo ago
Those are the exact concepts I was looking for.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
mcv 3mo ago
A compiler is a deterministic algorithm. Clause is not. Of course Claude is an algorithm, but it's a very vague, fuzzy and complex one, where you have no way to determine what's going on inside, and no way to know up front what's going to come out.
osti 3mo ago
In computer science, one definition of algorithm is basically any program that runs on a turing machine. By that definition, any LLM is an algorithm.
biorach 3mo ago
> "Algorithm" is not a word with a definition what?
- qsort 3mo ago
  Rogers "Theory of Recursive Functions and Effective Computability", page 1, emphasis is the author's: § 1.1 The informal notion of algorithm In this chapter we give a formal (i.e., mathematically exact) characterization of recursive function. The concept is basic for the remainder of the book. It is one way of making precise the informal mathematical notion of function computable "by algorithm" or "by effective procedure". In this section, as a preliminary to the formal characterization, we discuss certain aspects of the informal notions of algorithm and function computable by algorithm as they occur in mathematics. I don't understand why you people act like you're stumped by literally, literally page 1 of computer science.
  - mmarx 3mo ago
    > I don't understand why you people act like you're stumped by literally, literally page 1 of computer science. … and yet you didn't stop for a moment to consider that in a field as fast-moving as computer science, a concept which might not have had a formal definition in 1967 acquired one in the past 59 years? See, for example, Sipser's Introduction to the Theory of Computation, which has an entire section (3.3 in my 1997 print) titled “The Definiton of Algorithm”.
    - qsort 3mo ago
      Yes, did you read that section? It's using different terminology but it's saying exactly what I'm saying (of course it does, it's elementary computer science). There is no accepted definition of the word "algorithm": there wasn't one in 1967, there wasn't one in 1997 and there isn't one in 2026. There are models of computations we can prove to be equivalent to each other, but no commonly accepted definition that captures the way we use the word in normal speech.
  - biorach 3mo ago
    This is not page 1 of computer science. And you're being bitchy.
    - qsort 3mo ago
      > you're being bitchy Honestly you're right, I'm sorry. I'm not having a great day and ended up venting online. Logging off.
      - biorach 3mo ago
        oh wow. this is a rarity on an internet dominated by toxic rage-bait. apology accepted. I think you probably have interesting things to say on the matter and I look forward to reading them on a better day. respect.

by qsort 3mo ago

armchairhacker 3mo ago

Those are the exact concepts I was looking for.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

mcv 3mo ago

A compiler is a deterministic algorithm. Clause is not. Of course Claude is an algorithm, but it's a very vague, fuzzy and complex one, where you have no way to determine what's going on inside, and no way to know up front what's going to come out.

osti 3mo ago

In computer science, one definition of algorithm is basically any program that runs on a turing machine. By that definition, any LLM is an algorithm.

biorach 3mo ago

> "Algorithm" is not a word with a definition what?

qsort 3mo ago
Rogers "Theory of Recursive Functions and Effective Computability", page 1, emphasis is the author's: § 1.1 The informal notion of algorithm In this chapter we give a formal (i.e., mathematically exact) characterization of recursive function. The concept is basic for the remainder of the book. It is one way of making precise the informal mathematical notion of function computable "by algorithm" or "by effective procedure". In this section, as a preliminary to the formal characterization, we discuss certain aspects of the informal notions of algorithm and function computable by algorithm as they occur in mathematics. I don't understand why you people act like you're stumped by literally, literally page 1 of computer science.
- mmarx 3mo ago
  > I don't understand why you people act like you're stumped by literally, literally page 1 of computer science. … and yet you didn't stop for a moment to consider that in a field as fast-moving as computer science, a concept which might not have had a formal definition in 1967 acquired one in the past 59 years? See, for example, Sipser's Introduction to the Theory of Computation, which has an entire section (3.3 in my 1997 print) titled “The Definiton of Algorithm”.
  - qsort 3mo ago
    Yes, did you read that section? It's using different terminology but it's saying exactly what I'm saying (of course it does, it's elementary computer science). There is no accepted definition of the word "algorithm": there wasn't one in 1967, there wasn't one in 1997 and there isn't one in 2026. There are models of computations we can prove to be equivalent to each other, but no commonly accepted definition that captures the way we use the word in normal speech.
- biorach 3mo ago
  This is not page 1 of computer science. And you're being bitchy.
  - qsort 3mo ago
    > you're being bitchy Honestly you're right, I'm sorry. I'm not having a great day and ended up venting online. Logging off.
    - biorach 3mo ago
      oh wow. this is a rarity on an internet dominated by toxic rage-bait. apology accepted. I think you probably have interesting things to say on the matter and I look forward to reading them on a better day. respect.