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I generally find Valve's software quality subpar but their ethics to be vastly superior to anyone else's. For that reason they are the only place I'll even look

by datakan 3mo ago

I generally find Valve's software quality subpar but their ethics to be vastly superior to anyone else's. For that reason they are the only place I'll even look for games anymore. They aren't perfect but they at least don't hate me like Epic does.

movedx01 3mo ago
What ethics do you see being superior in the company known for exposing underages to gambling? The anyone elses must be really bad guys. Yes I like my deck and I respect their contributions to gaming on linux, but Valve is no saint.
- VerifiedReports 3mo ago
  Virtue signal received.
- totetsu 3mo ago
  I always think now it’s funny that we Hated valve when steam was first introduced. Their pioneering of always online DRM and no physical media, soon to be followed by Bethesdas horse Armour micropayment dlc. The base line has shifted soo far from the days of freely auto p2p downloading of fan made skins on map load in q3arena.
  - ChoGGi 3mo ago
    I was on steam beta, I thought it was great. No more having to dig around for patches, all my games in one place. It has its ups and downs, but I can't think of any other platform I'd rather use (though merit wise gog wins).
- mort96 3mo ago
  The gaming market is full of gambling. Steam has problems in that area but they're miles better than what Apple is doing. My impression of Steam is that it's a game delivery platform where some games sadly have gambling elements. My impression of the App Store is that it's a "gambling for kids" delivery platform.
- schmookeeg 3mo ago
  Really? when you hear "steam" you think "the pioneers in exposing underage kids to gambling" ? I can't even picture gaben with a wispy moustache to twist evilly. I think that would look ridiculous on him. :) Your "bad guys" are my "people are apparently and inexplicably mad that steam doesn't do their parenting for them" guys.
  - movedx01 3mo ago
    Yes, they basically pioneered lootboxes, they shaped and scaled microtransaction economy around randomized outcome purchases under disguise of gaming and then slapped a marketplace on top of it(to take even further cut %% nonetheless). > I can't even picture gaben with a wispy moustache to twist evilly. Add a 500m gigayacht to the picture, maybe it will make it easier. Or a fleet.
    - ChoGGi 3mo ago
      > Yes, they basically pioneered lootboxes MapleStory and FIFA have that crown, though Valve certainly did their part to popularize them.
    - artisinal 3mo ago
      Gigayachts that are used for tax avoidance.
stonedivot 3mo ago
What Valve software have you used that is subpar? It must be a lot of it since you said you "generally" find this to be true.
- datakan 3mo ago
  The Steam client for starters but pretty much every game they initially released since 1997 was extremely buggy. They also struggle very hard to even release much anymore. I'll give them kudos on supporting OSS and their Proton development.
  - idiotsecant 3mo ago
    this is peak cs era opinion, valve puts out extremely high quality real software now, just none of it is games.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- pjerem 3mo ago
  Steam client is pretty bad. It's slow, full of ads, inconsistent, complex ... Its only quality is that everything else is worse and that it have an interesting ecosystem and ok tier customer policies (but that's unrelated to the software). The thing takes several seconds to start on my brand new gaming rig. Not insufferable but given its only usefulness is to list my games and start one, that's a lot.
  - leoc 3mo ago
    They have a proven unwillingness over many years to do what it takes to make Steam voice chat work reliably. It seems that their objective with Steam Chat is to do just enough to ensure that all Steam item-trading communication remains on their platform (for the worthy reason of controlling scamming).
  - ChoGGi 3mo ago
    What ads? I think there's a start-up popup you can turn off in the client settings. I've never seen ads other than their storefront, but I want ads there.
pipes 3mo ago
I used to agree with this sentiment. But now I think they engage in some nasty practices, like not allowing developers to list their games on other online stores at cheaper prices. That and they take a large cut (30 percent I think) Vs epic store at 12 percent as far as I can recall. I mostly buy from gog because they give your the download to keep for life. Also I just like them. However getting their games to work on steam deck is more time consuming than just buying from steam I'd be happy to find out that I've been misinformed but I'm pretty certain this is all true.
- mashlol 3mo ago
  Valve does allow listing on other stores at other prices. They even allow you to sell Steam keys for your game on other stores for lower prices - and they earn $0 for that while still providing the infrastructure for those players to download/play. Edit: I think for steam key sales actually you're supposed to sell for the same price as Steam, but I can't seem to find the documentatiom stating either way Edit 2: Ah, here is something stating it "You should use Steam Keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam. It is important that you don’t give Steam customers a worse deal than Steam Key purchasers." (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys) However, I know many games have steam keys indeed available for cheaper on other stores. Not sure how much valve actually cares, or if they have special permission or what.
  - functionmouse 3mo ago
    they allow selling your game on other websites, but not for substantially cheaper. Isn't this what Wolfire Games (Overgrowth, Lugaru, Receiver) sued them over?
- jasonjmcghee 3mo ago
  Not trying to be an apologist for anyone, but if the epic store could charge 30%, it's hard for me to believe they wouldn't.
  - 3mo ago
HelloUsername 3mo ago
Didn't it take for Valve to lose a court case in order to offer refunds? https://web.archive.org/web/20180427063845/https://store.steampowered.com/consumer_rights_notice/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180427063845/https://store.ste... Also, Valve could decide at any moment what happens with your game library. Unlike GOG, where you can download and save the .exe or .dmg file, Steam can just pull the plug and make you lose all your games and money.
- idiotsecant 3mo ago
  I don't really care why the experience is the best in the industry, only that it is.
  - Brian_K_White 3mo ago
    But the comment explicitly says the opposite, that the experience is subpar but they value the ethics more. This comment is pointing out the ethics are not so great.
    - mort96 3mo ago
      No, they said the software quality is sub par. I generally agree: Steam isn't a great piece of software, but it works tolerably well and everything surrounding it makes it a better experience than any alternative I know of.
- ChoGGi 3mo ago
  Wasn't that court ruling only for Australia? Valve choose to make it worldwide, that should give them some credit? Though I always assumed they didn't want to bother making a refund system till they had to, then they figured might as well unlock the floodgates (not that I know anyone at Valve).

by datakan 3mo ago

movedx01 3mo ago

What ethics do you see being superior in the company known for exposing underages to gambling? The anyone elses must be really bad guys. Yes I like my deck and I respect their contributions to gaming on linux, but Valve is no saint.

VerifiedReports 3mo ago
Virtue signal received.
totetsu 3mo ago
I always think now it’s funny that we Hated valve when steam was first introduced. Their pioneering of always online DRM and no physical media, soon to be followed by Bethesdas horse Armour micropayment dlc. The base line has shifted soo far from the days of freely auto p2p downloading of fan made skins on map load in q3arena.
- ChoGGi 3mo ago
  I was on steam beta, I thought it was great. No more having to dig around for patches, all my games in one place. It has its ups and downs, but I can't think of any other platform I'd rather use (though merit wise gog wins).
mort96 3mo ago
The gaming market is full of gambling. Steam has problems in that area but they're miles better than what Apple is doing. My impression of Steam is that it's a game delivery platform where some games sadly have gambling elements. My impression of the App Store is that it's a "gambling for kids" delivery platform.
schmookeeg 3mo ago
Really? when you hear "steam" you think "the pioneers in exposing underage kids to gambling" ? I can't even picture gaben with a wispy moustache to twist evilly. I think that would look ridiculous on him. :) Your "bad guys" are my "people are apparently and inexplicably mad that steam doesn't do their parenting for them" guys.
- movedx01 3mo ago
  Yes, they basically pioneered lootboxes, they shaped and scaled microtransaction economy around randomized outcome purchases under disguise of gaming and then slapped a marketplace on top of it(to take even further cut %% nonetheless). > I can't even picture gaben with a wispy moustache to twist evilly. Add a 500m gigayacht to the picture, maybe it will make it easier. Or a fleet.
  - ChoGGi 3mo ago
    > Yes, they basically pioneered lootboxes MapleStory and FIFA have that crown, though Valve certainly did their part to popularize them.
  - artisinal 3mo ago
    Gigayachts that are used for tax avoidance.

stonedivot 3mo ago

What Valve software have you used that is subpar? It must be a lot of it since you said you "generally" find this to be true.

datakan 3mo ago
The Steam client for starters but pretty much every game they initially released since 1997 was extremely buggy. They also struggle very hard to even release much anymore. I'll give them kudos on supporting OSS and their Proton development.
- idiotsecant 3mo ago
  this is peak cs era opinion, valve puts out extremely high quality real software now, just none of it is games.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
pjerem 3mo ago
Steam client is pretty bad. It's slow, full of ads, inconsistent, complex ... Its only quality is that everything else is worse and that it have an interesting ecosystem and ok tier customer policies (but that's unrelated to the software). The thing takes several seconds to start on my brand new gaming rig. Not insufferable but given its only usefulness is to list my games and start one, that's a lot.
- leoc 3mo ago
  They have a proven unwillingness over many years to do what it takes to make Steam voice chat work reliably. It seems that their objective with Steam Chat is to do just enough to ensure that all Steam item-trading communication remains on their platform (for the worthy reason of controlling scamming).
- ChoGGi 3mo ago
  What ads? I think there's a start-up popup you can turn off in the client settings. I've never seen ads other than their storefront, but I want ads there.

pipes 3mo ago

I used to agree with this sentiment. But now I think they engage in some nasty practices, like not allowing developers to list their games on other online stores at cheaper prices. That and they take a large cut (30 percent I think) Vs epic store at 12 percent as far as I can recall. I mostly buy from gog because they give your the download to keep for life. Also I just like them. However getting their games to work on steam deck is more time consuming than just buying from steam I'd be happy to find out that I've been misinformed but I'm pretty certain this is all true.

mashlol 3mo ago
Valve does allow listing on other stores at other prices. They even allow you to sell Steam keys for your game on other stores for lower prices - and they earn $0 for that while still providing the infrastructure for those players to download/play. Edit: I think for steam key sales actually you're supposed to sell for the same price as Steam, but I can't seem to find the documentatiom stating either way Edit 2: Ah, here is something stating it "You should use Steam Keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam. It is important that you don’t give Steam customers a worse deal than Steam Key purchasers." (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys) However, I know many games have steam keys indeed available for cheaper on other stores. Not sure how much valve actually cares, or if they have special permission or what.
- functionmouse 3mo ago
  they allow selling your game on other websites, but not for substantially cheaper. Isn't this what Wolfire Games (Overgrowth, Lugaru, Receiver) sued them over?
jasonjmcghee 3mo ago
Not trying to be an apologist for anyone, but if the epic store could charge 30%, it's hard for me to believe they wouldn't.
- 3mo ago

HelloUsername 3mo ago

Didn't it take for Valve to lose a court case in order to offer refunds? https://web.archive.org/web/20180427063845/https://store.steampowered.com/consumer_rights_notice/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180427063845/https://store.ste... Also, Valve could decide at any moment what happens with your game library. Unlike GOG, where you can download and save the .exe or .dmg file, Steam can just pull the plug and make you lose all your games and money.

idiotsecant 3mo ago
I don't really care why the experience is the best in the industry, only that it is.
- Brian_K_White 3mo ago
  But the comment explicitly says the opposite, that the experience is subpar but they value the ethics more. This comment is pointing out the ethics are not so great.
  - mort96 3mo ago
    No, they said the software quality is sub par. I generally agree: Steam isn't a great piece of software, but it works tolerably well and everything surrounding it makes it a better experience than any alternative I know of.
ChoGGi 3mo ago
Wasn't that court ruling only for Australia? Valve choose to make it worldwide, that should give them some credit? Though I always assumed they didn't want to bother making a refund system till they had to, then they figured might as well unlock the floodgates (not that I know anyone at Valve).