4 ms·

That's nice and all, but I would not get hired in many places that are heavily regulated and risk adverse, and would not hire someone who swears by said models

That's nice and all, but I would not get hired in many places that are heavily regulated and risk adverse, and would not hire someone who swears by said models because there is no trust in their creators not training for malicious intent, a random tool call here and there, and you've got a "open weight model" that can send your code anywhere. There's just no trust in a country that is digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people. Do people ever look at the full sized Tianamen Square photos? This is not even the photo of the many people on the ground who were killed by their government and it is still insane to look at. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/dgua6k/the_full_tiananmen_square_tank_man_picture_is_so/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/dgua6k/the_full_tiana...

timedude 3mo ago
Thanks, this is the first time i see these photos http://www.cnd.org/June4th/massacre.html http://www.cnd.org/June4th/massacre.html
hosteur 3mo ago
> There's just no trust in a country that is digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people. Are you referring to USA, China or EU here?
- whynotminot 3mo ago
  What you personally believe and perception within the United States are not the same thing.
  - preg_match 3mo ago
    The US is most definitely hostile towards its own people, and we also have the most comprehensive surveillance apparatus in the world. On par with, if not more extensive than, China. People largely can't protest here right now, and US citizens are being killed. People are being sent to work camps in countries where laws do not apply. And our leadership is, right now, priming the American people for when they reject the results of future elections. Not to mention everybody involved in the last attempted coup was pardoned - after we were told that our current leadership had nothing to do with the coup. The state of the US is much more dire than most people are letting on. And it's understandable why. Nobody likes bad news, and we all like to believe things will be okay. All I know is I can't take my phone into the airport. I can't go out and protest without risking my life and freedom. I can't drive anywhere without my location being tracked and logged. And, if I get pulled over, I must comply with any order, no matter how unlawful, otherwise I risk being executed in the street. Some of these things have been going on for a while, and some are new. But all are real.
    - buellerbueller 3mo ago
      >The state of the US is much more dire than most people are letting on. This is unfalsifiable, so not a great claim. You can continue to claim this forever without having to prove it. >All I know is I can't take my phone into the airport. I can't go out and protest without risking my life and freedom. I can't drive anywhere without my location being tracked and logged. And, if I get pulled over, I must comply with any order, no matter how unlawful, otherwise I risk being executed in the street. Wild, wild exaggerations, but you will point to your unfalsifiable claim to justify them. The VAST MAJORITY of people in the US who engage in the things that you claim that they cannot, do so, and with no consequence. I am no fan of this administration, but I am even less a fan of outright exaggeration (which is even one of the defining hallmarks of Mr. Trump)
      - preg_match 3mo ago
        None of this is an exaggeration. It was just recently ruled that your phone can be searched extensively at an airport, without a warrant. The only reasonable thing to do is simply not bring your phone. Notice what I am claiming and what I have claimed. I am not claiming these things will happen. I am saying there is a risk. People have gotten executed by the state for not complying with obviously unlawful orders. It has happened many, many times. And before you argue: yes being shot by the police is "public execution by the state without a trial or conviction". That sounds harsh, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. Every time you are pulled over, there is a risk. Any time you enter a public space, there is a risk that ICE, which is a domestic peace-keeping military force, will arrest you or kill you. There is a risk. There is a risk you will not receive due process. Every time you go to a protest, there is a risk your phone will surveilled, sometimes remotely. We know ICE uses 5G devices to surveil the the air waves. Every time you go to a protest, there is a risk you will be subjected to tear gas or rubber bullets. All of these things are real, are proven, and have occurred on many occasions that we know of. There is really no dispute here, so you can try to dispute it, but if you do, then you are outing yourself as a dishonest person, and of course then naturally nobody will waste their time talking to you. Now, you probably aren't happy about this. Neither am I. But emotions such as unhappiness do not magically override reality. Whether these things are happening or not and whether they are a risk is a separate question. A question with only one reasonable answer: yes.
- colinsane 3mo ago
  hopefully all of the above? at some point the conversation has to go past this reflexive "USA uses tech abusively -> but look at how abusive China is with tech -> ..." back-and-forth to acknowledging that neither party is your savior -- and then (hopefully) acting upon and coordinating around that understanding.
hahahaa 3mo ago
And how is US doing on digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people? In practical terms you could get US and Chinese models to review each other, right. Depends what your use case is. Coding is kinda not so bad it is reviewable and immutable/traceable per commit. An AI app that is like a psychologist or something may be more worrying.
- AlexandrB 3mo ago
  > And how is US doing on digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people? Seemingly better than everywhere else in the world, including where I live (Canada). Whataboutism doesn't really work when you use the least bad option as an example.
  - FeloniousHam 3mo ago
    And whatever can be said about the US, at least with democracy you get a chance to fire the leadership every four years (or even sooner the closer you to the place you live!).
  - mynameisbilly 3mo ago
    Are you familiar with the flock camera situation in the States? The American surveillance state has rapidly been getting worse with the help of this technology.
  - hahahaa 3mo ago
    Whataboutism moniker doesn't apply when the context is "avoid Chinese models because China commits crimes against humanity" and context is also "Top sota models for useful work are created by, let's list them all: US and China". If the argument is don't use Chinese models because China is hostile then let's say "The USA.... Objection: Relevance? Overruled". US is less hostile in the day to day sense, but they could look at your cloud data at any time because say someone in your company protested and exercised their 1A right, and the government didn't like that, so that sort of thing tracks directly to secrecy and privacy guarantees I might want from models. I personally don't worry for my sloperating but if I ran a large company's AI I might consider it. Esp if in Europe.

timedude 3mo ago

Thanks, this is the first time i see these photos http://www.cnd.org/June4th/massacre.html http://www.cnd.org/June4th/massacre.html

hosteur 3mo ago

> There's just no trust in a country that is digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people. Are you referring to USA, China or EU here?

whynotminot 3mo ago
What you personally believe and perception within the United States are not the same thing.
- preg_match 3mo ago
  The US is most definitely hostile towards its own people, and we also have the most comprehensive surveillance apparatus in the world. On par with, if not more extensive than, China. People largely can't protest here right now, and US citizens are being killed. People are being sent to work camps in countries where laws do not apply. And our leadership is, right now, priming the American people for when they reject the results of future elections. Not to mention everybody involved in the last attempted coup was pardoned - after we were told that our current leadership had nothing to do with the coup. The state of the US is much more dire than most people are letting on. And it's understandable why. Nobody likes bad news, and we all like to believe things will be okay. All I know is I can't take my phone into the airport. I can't go out and protest without risking my life and freedom. I can't drive anywhere without my location being tracked and logged. And, if I get pulled over, I must comply with any order, no matter how unlawful, otherwise I risk being executed in the street. Some of these things have been going on for a while, and some are new. But all are real.
  - buellerbueller 3mo ago
    >The state of the US is much more dire than most people are letting on. This is unfalsifiable, so not a great claim. You can continue to claim this forever without having to prove it. >All I know is I can't take my phone into the airport. I can't go out and protest without risking my life and freedom. I can't drive anywhere without my location being tracked and logged. And, if I get pulled over, I must comply with any order, no matter how unlawful, otherwise I risk being executed in the street. Wild, wild exaggerations, but you will point to your unfalsifiable claim to justify them. The VAST MAJORITY of people in the US who engage in the things that you claim that they cannot, do so, and with no consequence. I am no fan of this administration, but I am even less a fan of outright exaggeration (which is even one of the defining hallmarks of Mr. Trump)
    - preg_match 3mo ago
      None of this is an exaggeration. It was just recently ruled that your phone can be searched extensively at an airport, without a warrant. The only reasonable thing to do is simply not bring your phone. Notice what I am claiming and what I have claimed. I am not claiming these things will happen. I am saying there is a risk. People have gotten executed by the state for not complying with obviously unlawful orders. It has happened many, many times. And before you argue: yes being shot by the police is "public execution by the state without a trial or conviction". That sounds harsh, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. Every time you are pulled over, there is a risk. Any time you enter a public space, there is a risk that ICE, which is a domestic peace-keeping military force, will arrest you or kill you. There is a risk. There is a risk you will not receive due process. Every time you go to a protest, there is a risk your phone will surveilled, sometimes remotely. We know ICE uses 5G devices to surveil the the air waves. Every time you go to a protest, there is a risk you will be subjected to tear gas or rubber bullets. All of these things are real, are proven, and have occurred on many occasions that we know of. There is really no dispute here, so you can try to dispute it, but if you do, then you are outing yourself as a dishonest person, and of course then naturally nobody will waste their time talking to you. Now, you probably aren't happy about this. Neither am I. But emotions such as unhappiness do not magically override reality. Whether these things are happening or not and whether they are a risk is a separate question. A question with only one reasonable answer: yes.
colinsane 3mo ago
hopefully all of the above? at some point the conversation has to go past this reflexive "USA uses tech abusively -> but look at how abusive China is with tech -> ..." back-and-forth to acknowledging that neither party is your savior -- and then (hopefully) acting upon and coordinating around that understanding.

hahahaa 3mo ago

And how is US doing on digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people? In practical terms you could get US and Chinese models to review each other, right. Depends what your use case is. Coding is kinda not so bad it is reviewable and immutable/traceable per commit. An AI app that is like a psychologist or something may be more worrying.

AlexandrB 3mo ago
> And how is US doing on digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people? Seemingly better than everywhere else in the world, including where I live (Canada). Whataboutism doesn't really work when you use the least bad option as an example.
- FeloniousHam 3mo ago
  And whatever can be said about the US, at least with democracy you get a chance to fire the leadership every four years (or even sooner the closer you to the place you live!).
- mynameisbilly 3mo ago
  Are you familiar with the flock camera situation in the States? The American surveillance state has rapidly been getting worse with the help of this technology.
- hahahaa 3mo ago
  Whataboutism moniker doesn't apply when the context is "avoid Chinese models because China commits crimes against humanity" and context is also "Top sota models for useful work are created by, let's list them all: US and China". If the argument is don't use Chinese models because China is hostile then let's say "The USA.... Objection: Relevance? Overruled". US is less hostile in the day to day sense, but they could look at your cloud data at any time because say someone in your company protested and exercised their 1A right, and the government didn't like that, so that sort of thing tracks directly to secrecy and privacy guarantees I might want from models. I personally don't worry for my sloperating but if I ran a large company's AI I might consider it. Esp if in Europe.