5 ms·

Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand

by xlmnxp 2mo ago

itake 2mo ago
What am I trying to understand about the western models on the term "Gaza genocide"? I asked Grok "Tell me about the gaza genocide" and it write a IMHO balanced answer comparing why genocide is and isn't the right term. [0] ChatGPT 5.6 Sol only explained why people call it a genocide and did not go in as in depth as Grok did for why people don't agree with the term. [1] The only unsaid response (to me) here is the model should have declared that it was not a genocide, and because these models explain why it was a genocide, they are bad? [0] - https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b8bd-47c864d0ffb7 https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b... [1] - https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f4231 https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f42...
- xlmnxp 2mo ago
  This kind of response is predictable, since these models are tuned to align with one side of the issue. A recent example: Grok answered a similar question and was suspended shortly afterward [1]. Furthermore, a UN commission has formally concluded that it constitutes genocide [2] — a fact that Western AI models rarely mention, let alone link to directly. [1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-temporarily-suspended-over-comments-on-gaza-genocide/3657125 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-tempo... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
  - itake 2mo ago
    My understanding is a commission's findings are not a UN ruling. The UN ruling is discussing in the South Africa vs Israel case [0], which has not been ruled on yet. [0] - https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406 https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406
  - almogo 2mo ago
    Man, it's so important to read sometimes. I really hope HN people passing by this comment take a second to contemplate what's being said here. The claim: "the models are tuned to align with one side of the issue, he is an article from ArsTech about it" The reality: grok got mass-reported on X by pro-Israel accounts, leading to an automated suspension, which was undone by the X team shortly thereafter. Absolutely nothing to do with the models aligning to one side or the other on this conflict. The claim is unfounded.
- culi 2mo ago
  So all the models you tried disagreed with the United Nations ruling? In international law, that is the ultimate authority of what is/isn't a genocide. It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide.
  - itake 2mo ago
    I have a couple questions. 1/ I don't see in the responses where the model says it is or isn't a genocide. Can you share the snippet from each, I included the logs above? 2/ I can't find a source on the UN ruling that you mentioned. I am not interested in the findings of an investigative body, just the official UN ruling. Can you share? ChatGPT (and myself) can only find this [0], which is a second round of written submissions. [0] https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406?utm_source=chatgpt.com
    - culi 2mo ago
      Here: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/ https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/ It goes into depth about the purposeful destruction of civilian infrastructure including hospitals and educational facilities, force displacements, funding for new settlements in the land of displaced people, judaization and segregation, and more. > The Commission analysed the military operations of the Israeli security forces in Gaza from October 2023 pursuant to the obligations of Israel under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention) > Since October 2023, Israeli officials have demonstrated a clear and consistent intent to establish permanent military control over Gaza and to change its demographic composition while systematically destroying Palestinian life in Gaza. This is evident in the extensive destruction and fragmentation of the territory, the establishment of military structures, the destruction of natural resources and infrastructure essential to the survival of the civilian population, forcible transfer and statements indicating the existence of plans for the deportation of the population. Also here is where the ICJ said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide: https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447 https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447 And in November of 2024 is when we got the ICC issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his minister of defense (this is why Mamdani is threatening to arrest him and send him to The Hague): https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 And here is from June of this year when the UN stated Israel is continuing to commit genocide by targeting children: https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790 https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790 --- Additionally, here is the International Association of Genocide Scholars resolution: https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS-Resolution-on-Gaza-FINAL.pdf https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS... Amnesty International also concluded it in 2024: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter... --- I should add that ALL of this is well known amongst international legal scholars and well documented. This isn't just a matter of data missing from training.
- locallost 2mo ago
  "Explains" why people "call" it genocide. It's obvious baloney and beating around the bush because it was trained on media that does the same, and it was likely instructed to do so in the same way the media is instructed. E.g. when Israel murders civilians waiting in line for food, it will be a matter of fact report without any qualifications and just muddying the water. When Hamas does it, it will be an article charged with words like massacre etc. This is well documented [1]. To further illustrate the point that we have the same thing with LLMs, I asked it two questions: 1) Is Israel committing genocide 2) Is China committing genocide In both instances it said it's a matter of great international debate with a list of arguments, but the summaries were different. In the one case it concludes that while the UN and others broadly document severe human rights abuses, the label genocide has been formally adopted by several governments and watchdogs. In the other case it says while many have concluded it is genocide, the final decision rests with the International Court and it is expected to take years to make a decision. Can you guess which is which? I think if we offered a $100 to people to pick which is which, the success rate would be much higher than 50% (random), thus easily proving biased phrasing. [1] https://theintercept.com/2026/05/12/gaza-media-coverage-israel-bias/ https://theintercept.com/2026/05/12/gaza-media-coverage-isra...
sciencejerk 2mo ago
There is a shred of truth in what you're saying, but I think you're generally mistaken. The USA in particular has companies that pratice censorship to support their Left/Right ideology (or push the views of rich people, politicians), but not even Trump can tell OpenAI or Google to turn their model into FoxNews bots.
enjeyw 2mo ago
[dead]
odiroot 2mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_...
- inigyou 2mo ago
  When debunking that X is better than Y it isn't a fallacy to point out how bad X is.
jari_mustonen 2mo ago
I had a steange experience talking to Claude about a random 15-years old boys winning women’s national soccer team. It insisted, to a level that I detemined it to be part of the post training, that it does not matter. That women’s team is better at dribbling, finishing and reading the field, it claimed. When I pushed it how it knows this, it didn’t let go. Instead it started claiming that it has personally observed this by watching the games. Every society has its taboos and ours is no different and feminism being just one. In my books, the chinese censorship is better. You know where they are holding their finger on the scale and not hiding it behind vague terms like ”safety”.
- DevDesmond 2mo ago
  Are you trying to cite the U15 Dallas FC academy team as a “random” team? Please do share your prompt / conversation, because it sounds like you might actually just have an issue using words precisely.

Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand

by xlmnxp 2mo ago

Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand

itake 2mo ago

What am I trying to understand about the western models on the term "Gaza genocide"? I asked Grok "Tell me about the gaza genocide" and it write a IMHO balanced answer comparing why genocide is and isn't the right term. [0] ChatGPT 5.6 Sol only explained why people call it a genocide and did not go in as in depth as Grok did for why people don't agree with the term. [1] The only unsaid response (to me) here is the model should have declared that it was not a genocide, and because these models explain why it was a genocide, they are bad? [0] - https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b8bd-47c864d0ffb7 https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b... [1] - https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f4231 https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f42...

xlmnxp 2mo ago
This kind of response is predictable, since these models are tuned to align with one side of the issue. A recent example: Grok answered a similar question and was suspended shortly afterward [1]. Furthermore, a UN commission has formally concluded that it constitutes genocide [2] — a fact that Western AI models rarely mention, let alone link to directly. [1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-temporarily-suspended-over-comments-on-gaza-genocide/3657125 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-tempo... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
- itake 2mo ago
  My understanding is a commission's findings are not a UN ruling. The UN ruling is discussing in the South Africa vs Israel case [0], which has not been ruled on yet. [0] - https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406 https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406
- almogo 2mo ago
  Man, it's so important to read sometimes. I really hope HN people passing by this comment take a second to contemplate what's being said here. The claim: "the models are tuned to align with one side of the issue, he is an article from ArsTech about it" The reality: grok got mass-reported on X by pro-Israel accounts, leading to an automated suspension, which was undone by the X team shortly thereafter. Absolutely nothing to do with the models aligning to one side or the other on this conflict. The claim is unfounded.
culi 2mo ago
So all the models you tried disagreed with the United Nations ruling? In international law, that is the ultimate authority of what is/isn't a genocide. It's objectively, legally speaking, a genocide.
- itake 2mo ago
  I have a couple questions. 1/ I don't see in the responses where the model says it is or isn't a genocide. Can you share the snippet from each, I included the logs above? 2/ I can't find a source on the UN ruling that you mentioned. I am not interested in the findings of an investigative body, just the official UN ruling. Can you share? ChatGPT (and myself) can only find this [0], which is a second round of written submissions. [0] https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.icj-cij.org/node/206406?utm_source=chatgpt.com
  - culi 2mo ago
    Here: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/ https://www.un.org/unispal/document/report-of-coi-14aug25/ It goes into depth about the purposeful destruction of civilian infrastructure including hospitals and educational facilities, force displacements, funding for new settlements in the land of displaced people, judaization and segregation, and more. > The Commission analysed the military operations of the Israeli security forces in Gaza from October 2023 pursuant to the obligations of Israel under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention) > Since October 2023, Israeli officials have demonstrated a clear and consistent intent to establish permanent military control over Gaza and to change its demographic composition while systematically destroying Palestinian life in Gaza. This is evident in the extensive destruction and fragmentation of the territory, the establishment of military structures, the destruction of natural resources and infrastructure essential to the survival of the civilian population, forcible transfer and statements indicating the existence of plans for the deportation of the population. Also here is where the ICJ said Israel's actions are consistent with genocide: https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447 https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203447 And in November of 2024 is when we got the ICC issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his minister of defense (this is why Mamdani is threatening to arrest him and send him to The Hague): https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 And here is from June of this year when the UN stated Israel is continuing to commit genocide by targeting children: https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790 https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/06/1167790 --- Additionally, here is the International Association of Genocide Scholars resolution: https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS-Resolution-on-Gaza-FINAL.pdf https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS... Amnesty International also concluded it in 2024: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-inter... --- I should add that ALL of this is well known amongst international legal scholars and well documented. This isn't just a matter of data missing from training.
locallost 2mo ago
"Explains" why people "call" it genocide. It's obvious baloney and beating around the bush because it was trained on media that does the same, and it was likely instructed to do so in the same way the media is instructed. E.g. when Israel murders civilians waiting in line for food, it will be a matter of fact report without any qualifications and just muddying the water. When Hamas does it, it will be an article charged with words like massacre etc. This is well documented [1]. To further illustrate the point that we have the same thing with LLMs, I asked it two questions: 1) Is Israel committing genocide 2) Is China committing genocide In both instances it said it's a matter of great international debate with a list of arguments, but the summaries were different. In the one case it concludes that while the UN and others broadly document severe human rights abuses, the label genocide has been formally adopted by several governments and watchdogs. In the other case it says while many have concluded it is genocide, the final decision rests with the International Court and it is expected to take years to make a decision. Can you guess which is which? I think if we offered a $100 to people to pick which is which, the success rate would be much higher than 50% (random), thus easily proving biased phrasing. [1] https://theintercept.com/2026/05/12/gaza-media-coverage-israel-bias/ https://theintercept.com/2026/05/12/gaza-media-coverage-isra...

sciencejerk 2mo ago

There is a shred of truth in what you're saying, but I think you're generally mistaken. The USA in particular has companies that pratice censorship to support their Left/Right ideology (or push the views of rich people, politicians), but not even Trump can tell OpenAI or Google to turn their model into FoxNews bots.

enjeyw 2mo ago

[dead]

odiroot 2mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_...

inigyou 2mo ago
When debunking that X is better than Y it isn't a fallacy to point out how bad X is.

jari_mustonen 2mo ago

I had a steange experience talking to Claude about a random 15-years old boys winning women’s national soccer team. It insisted, to a level that I detemined it to be part of the post training, that it does not matter. That women’s team is better at dribbling, finishing and reading the field, it claimed. When I pushed it how it knows this, it didn’t let go. Instead it started claiming that it has personally observed this by watching the games. Every society has its taboos and ours is no different and feminism being just one. In my books, the chinese censorship is better. You know where they are holding their finger on the scale and not hiding it behind vague terms like ”safety”.

DevDesmond 2mo ago
Are you trying to cite the U15 Dallas FC academy team as a “random” team? Please do share your prompt / conversation, because it sounds like you might actually just have an issue using words precisely.