28 ms·

Because the only way to prohibit piracy is to kill freedom of speech. If you want to protect freedom of exchange of data between people with no eavesdrop, you

by webreac 14y ago

Because the only way to prohibit piracy is to kill freedom of speech. If you want to protect freedom of exchange of data between people with no eavesdrop, you can not fight piracy.

Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
Perhaps but that doesn't make piracy good. It might make it an unavoidable side effect of something that's good, but that's a different thing.
- vy8vWJlco 14y ago
  If the freedom to communicate without fear of arbitrary interferance is a good thing (via the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights) and "piracy" cannot be realistically stopped without compromising that freedom (for example, by requiring ISPs to support large-scale surveillance, or by undemocratically influencing the government to adopt positions that are in conflict with social norms) then "piracy" is a good thing in at least the sense that the freedom to participate in "piracy" is a pre-requisite for that other good thing. I think privacy easily trumps non-commercial copyright so even when I'm feeling sympathetic to the pro-copyright arguement I am not willing to budge if it means things like more surveillance or increasing the fear that your are being watched by your government or some copyright enforcement company. I think that's a common enough feeling to explain why "Pirate" political parties have any success (despite many political systems being dominated by a small number of established parties, and the popular sentiment being that voting for anything else is throwing your vote away). As you have observed, that is quite a different arguement from the other possibility presented in the main article - that "piracy" (what everyone used to simply call sharing) is a good thing - which I am also receptive to. I mean, why bother having the Internet if not for the potential to distribute everything everywhere without saying "Please sir, I want some more"?
- eloisant 14y ago
  The important thing is not that piracy is good, but that the "war against piracy" is a bad thing. Just like in US drugs aren't "good" (at least they're no better than alcohol and cigarettes) but "the war on drugs" has a pretty devastating effect on the american society without addressing any drug problem. This is the same with piracy: to fight it movie and video games studio are adding DRM that affects paying customers without preventing piracy, and to censor piracy websites (like the Pirate Bay) the government passes laws that can later be used to silence an opposant (= restrict freedom of speech).
tzs 14y ago
And the only way to prohibit reckless driving is to kill freedom of travel, and the only way to prevent murder is to kill freedom of association, right? You are thinking in binary. Binary models underfit the real world.

by webreac 14y ago

Because the only way to prohibit piracy is to kill freedom of speech. If you want to protect freedom of exchange of data between people with no eavesdrop, you can not fight piracy.

Tyrannosaurs 14y ago

Perhaps but that doesn't make piracy good. It might make it an unavoidable side effect of something that's good, but that's a different thing.

vy8vWJlco 14y ago
If the freedom to communicate without fear of arbitrary interferance is a good thing (via the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights) and "piracy" cannot be realistically stopped without compromising that freedom (for example, by requiring ISPs to support large-scale surveillance, or by undemocratically influencing the government to adopt positions that are in conflict with social norms) then "piracy" is a good thing in at least the sense that the freedom to participate in "piracy" is a pre-requisite for that other good thing. I think privacy easily trumps non-commercial copyright so even when I'm feeling sympathetic to the pro-copyright arguement I am not willing to budge if it means things like more surveillance or increasing the fear that your are being watched by your government or some copyright enforcement company. I think that's a common enough feeling to explain why "Pirate" political parties have any success (despite many political systems being dominated by a small number of established parties, and the popular sentiment being that voting for anything else is throwing your vote away). As you have observed, that is quite a different arguement from the other possibility presented in the main article - that "piracy" (what everyone used to simply call sharing) is a good thing - which I am also receptive to. I mean, why bother having the Internet if not for the potential to distribute everything everywhere without saying "Please sir, I want some more"?
eloisant 14y ago
The important thing is not that piracy is good, but that the "war against piracy" is a bad thing. Just like in US drugs aren't "good" (at least they're no better than alcohol and cigarettes) but "the war on drugs" has a pretty devastating effect on the american society without addressing any drug problem. This is the same with piracy: to fight it movie and video games studio are adding DRM that affects paying customers without preventing piracy, and to censor piracy websites (like the Pirate Bay) the government passes laws that can later be used to silence an opposant (= restrict freedom of speech).

tzs 14y ago

And the only way to prohibit reckless driving is to kill freedom of travel, and the only way to prevent murder is to kill freedom of association, right? You are thinking in binary. Binary models underfit the real world.