3 ms·

I've seriously considered opting out of health insurance altogether and stuffing away the obscenely priced monthly expense into an interest yielding account. In

by all2 3mo ago

I've seriously considered opting out of health insurance altogether and stuffing away the obscenely priced monthly expense into an interest yielding account. Insurance is nightmarish, and I don't really want to deal with it much anymore. I know this might appear foolish, but fighting with a corporation whose incentives are adverse to my own (both on the medical side and the insurance side) makes me a little sick to my stomach.

mothballed 3mo ago
I did that for much of my 20s and very glad I did. You are basically used parasitically by the Obamacare system as it caps the differential between young and elderly to the point it's well into the expected negative value, and you're young enough that the off chance of the bet going bad only results in declaring bankruptcy on a few years of professional salary.
EvanAnderson 3mo ago
If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who steadfastly demanded the full list price (under threat of collections). It only takes one of those standing pat on a high 5 or low 6-figure bill to cause you to lose on your "bet".
- JohnFen 3mo ago
  > you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. If you have health insurance (in the US) and you have a catastrophic event, your finances are going to be totally wrecked anyway. You're likely to have to declare bankruptcy unless you are pretty wealthy. At least, that's how it's gone with every friend and family member of mine that had to navigate such an event. That's on top of the painful nightmare that is dealing with insurance company claims (which, to add insult to injury, you have to do when you're injured or sick). The premiums are also so high that I'm very far from convinced that holding an actual health insurance policy is a better option than putting that premium money into an emergency fund.
  - hobonation 3mo ago
    Depends. I got $300,000 in coverage for a catastrophic event and wound up paying $ 3,100. But I did have good insurance with United Healthcare.
    - myrmidon 3mo ago
      Quick numbers that I found suggest lifetime healthcare costs of >$300k even if you're 65 already (with current yearly spending trending more towards $600k-ish). So even with a (single) catastrophic event just paying yourself might save you money still (which seems insane to me).
  - rayiner 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - starkparker 3mo ago
      It's wild how differently the press release you linked to frames that. > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Nearly half (49%) of cancer patients and survivors report being burdened by medical debt alongside some (13%) who report expecting to incur medical debt as part of their treatment plan, according to a new Survivor Views survey by the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network (ACS CAN). Interestingly, nearly all (98%) were insured when medical debt occurred. > Among those with cancer-related medical debt, nearly half (49%) have carried more than $5,000 in debt, a majority (69%) of whom have carried this debt for more than a year. Respondents also reported most commonly owing their medical debt to a hospital (76%). ... > According to the survey, an individual with cancer-related medical debt was three times more likely to be behind on recommended cancer screenings in comparison to those who have been able to pay for their care without accumulating debt. Nearly half (49%) saw their credit score decrease with 30% having difficulty qualifying for loans. > Cancer-related medical debt is also not felt equally and further deepens disparities. Black (13%) and Hispanic (14%) patients and survivors with medical debt were twice as likely as White respondents to report being denied care due to their debt. Black respondents were also more likely to report being contacted by collections agencies (66%) and to feel harassed by them (44%).
- all2 3mo ago
  I'm essentially of the mindset of JohnFen (adjacent comment). If I have a health issue that crops up, I'm financially done anyway. Given this, I might as well control the money rather than throw it into a pit and hope something useful pops out in an emergency.
- plagiarist 3mo ago
  Catastrophic events seem to wipe people out financially regardless of insurance status. I keep hearing of people divorcing so their former spouse can keep some assets while they are battling cancer. There's just no winning unless you never need care.
- tracker1 3mo ago
  The collection laws also vary from state to state on this... in some states, medical collections are all but toothless, short of actually filing a lawsuit, which isn't likely, except some facilities actually have staff lawyers willing to harass and sue.
  - ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
    Well, you can try for sure to default on medical debts without suffering a hit to your credit, but goood luck obtaining future care from any provider that you’ve stiffed. How many big medical systems/districts in your region can you run up a balance until none will serve you, except through the E.D.?
    - tracker1 3mo ago
      I have an 18yo bill for a medical lab, and I still get my regular bloodwork there... It gets brought up now and then on current visits, and I just say, "I'm not paying that bill." As to the why, it's because I switched jobs and got my regular labs done and apparently was between coverage that week... they tried to charge me a large multiple of what they charged insurance for the same labs, so I refused to pay. I also had several bills that were never paid from a week long hospital stay in my mid 30's... Most of them got paid if they'd agree to reasonable payments or settle for lower amounts when I had the money (tax return time, bonus, side work). After 7 years, they were all off my credit and I stopped bothering...

by all2 3mo ago

mothballed 3mo ago

I did that for much of my 20s and very glad I did. You are basically used parasitically by the Obamacare system as it caps the differential between young and elderly to the point it's well into the expected negative value, and you're young enough that the off chance of the bet going bad only results in declaring bankruptcy on a few years of professional salary.

EvanAnderson 3mo ago

If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who steadfastly demanded the full list price (under threat of collections). It only takes one of those standing pat on a high 5 or low 6-figure bill to cause you to lose on your "bet".

JohnFen 3mo ago
> you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. If you have health insurance (in the US) and you have a catastrophic event, your finances are going to be totally wrecked anyway. You're likely to have to declare bankruptcy unless you are pretty wealthy. At least, that's how it's gone with every friend and family member of mine that had to navigate such an event. That's on top of the painful nightmare that is dealing with insurance company claims (which, to add insult to injury, you have to do when you're injured or sick). The premiums are also so high that I'm very far from convinced that holding an actual health insurance policy is a better option than putting that premium money into an emergency fund.
- hobonation 3mo ago
  Depends. I got $300,000 in coverage for a catastrophic event and wound up paying $ 3,100. But I did have good insurance with United Healthcare.
  - myrmidon 3mo ago
    Quick numbers that I found suggest lifetime healthcare costs of >$300k even if you're 65 already (with current yearly spending trending more towards $600k-ish). So even with a (single) catastrophic event just paying yourself might save you money still (which seems insane to me).
- rayiner 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - starkparker 3mo ago
    It's wild how differently the press release you linked to frames that. > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Nearly half (49%) of cancer patients and survivors report being burdened by medical debt alongside some (13%) who report expecting to incur medical debt as part of their treatment plan, according to a new Survivor Views survey by the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network (ACS CAN). Interestingly, nearly all (98%) were insured when medical debt occurred. > Among those with cancer-related medical debt, nearly half (49%) have carried more than $5,000 in debt, a majority (69%) of whom have carried this debt for more than a year. Respondents also reported most commonly owing their medical debt to a hospital (76%). ... > According to the survey, an individual with cancer-related medical debt was three times more likely to be behind on recommended cancer screenings in comparison to those who have been able to pay for their care without accumulating debt. Nearly half (49%) saw their credit score decrease with 30% having difficulty qualifying for loans. > Cancer-related medical debt is also not felt equally and further deepens disparities. Black (13%) and Hispanic (14%) patients and survivors with medical debt were twice as likely as White respondents to report being denied care due to their debt. Black respondents were also more likely to report being contacted by collections agencies (66%) and to feel harassed by them (44%).
all2 3mo ago
I'm essentially of the mindset of JohnFen (adjacent comment). If I have a health issue that crops up, I'm financially done anyway. Given this, I might as well control the money rather than throw it into a pit and hope something useful pops out in an emergency.
plagiarist 3mo ago
Catastrophic events seem to wipe people out financially regardless of insurance status. I keep hearing of people divorcing so their former spouse can keep some assets while they are battling cancer. There's just no winning unless you never need care.
tracker1 3mo ago
The collection laws also vary from state to state on this... in some states, medical collections are all but toothless, short of actually filing a lawsuit, which isn't likely, except some facilities actually have staff lawyers willing to harass and sue.
- ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
  Well, you can try for sure to default on medical debts without suffering a hit to your credit, but goood luck obtaining future care from any provider that you’ve stiffed. How many big medical systems/districts in your region can you run up a balance until none will serve you, except through the E.D.?
  - tracker1 3mo ago
    I have an 18yo bill for a medical lab, and I still get my regular bloodwork there... It gets brought up now and then on current visits, and I just say, "I'm not paying that bill." As to the why, it's because I switched jobs and got my regular labs done and apparently was between coverage that week... they tried to charge me a large multiple of what they charged insurance for the same labs, so I refused to pay. I also had several bills that were never paid from a week long hospital stay in my mid 30's... Most of them got paid if they'd agree to reasonable payments or settle for lower amounts when I had the money (tax return time, bonus, side work). After 7 years, they were all off my credit and I stopped bothering...