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This type of repetitive comment[1] is a bit like the bike lanes discussion: 1.City introduces bike lanes on street. 2. Residents complain about parking spaces

by oblio 3mo ago

This type of repetitive comment[1] is a bit like the bike lanes discussion: 1.City introduces bike lanes on street. 2. Residents complain about parking spaces going away, businesses complain about future bankruptcies due to fewer customers, general uproar is huge. 3. Residents discover bike lanes are quiet, and they also reduce ambient noise levels due to reduced car traffic, air is also cleaner, roads and intersections are safer. 4. Businesses (re) discover that cars don't buy things, people in big metal boxes going 50+kmph don't buy as many things. But people biking and walking are... foot traffic... and business goes up. 5. City decides to introduce bike lanes on another street. 6. Cycle repeats. To your point about phones, it is very effective. If nobody can take their phone out on the school premise, suddenly it's very obvious who's trying to break the rule and guess what. Kids play, kids talk face to face, etc. * * * [1] This type of comment is one of the first things posted for these types of articles.

ck2 3mo ago
and completely seriously: 7. right-wing gains power and bans bike lanes anyway, labeling them "leftist" city after city in various states/countries but back to phones the real problem is they can't rule that parents must be responsible for their children I find the moral panic about kids with phones/internet access fascinating because of course it's a problem, but it's not the root cause of the problem ps. I am so old we weren't allowed to have calculators in school, absolutely forbidden
- oblio 3mo ago
  > the real problem is they can't rule that parents must be responsible for their children It's impossible for the average parent to police their child's smartphone. They just don't have, and never will have, the technical skills. > I find the moral panic about kids with phones/internet access fascinating And for those parents, which are quite rare, that do have the technical skills AND the involvement to ban smartphone usage at young ages, guess what. When Joey and Mickey and Sarah all have smartphones and are doom scrolling TikTok, even those parents lose. If all socializing moves to smartphones, the weirdo kids that don't have them or access to the "cool stuff" are automatically excluded. It's extremely alienating and nothing like not having calculators or PCs. Back in your day (or mine), huge corporations more akin to drug dealers employing tens of psychologists weren't trying to get kids addicted to calculators.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
nancyminusone 3mo ago
Must be location dependent. Where I live you never move beyond 2.
samtp 3mo ago
Agree with all of that but want to point out one thing that is almost always true re: businesses citing loss of parking to oppose bike lanes: 99% of the time the business owners are really just mad that they personally cannot park directly outside their business anymore. They may cite nonsensical things like 2 less parking spaces outside their business will lead to less customers, but what they are really mad about is their own personal parking space going away. Very dumb and selfish
cyberax 3mo ago
> 3. Residents discover bike lanes are quiet, and they also reduce ambient noise levels due to reduced car traffic, air is also cleaner, roads and intersections are safer. Except that 3 doesn't actually happen... Bike lanes stay empty and kill businesses. In Seattle and Portland the businesses within 1 block of new bike lanes declined faster after 2019.
- jmcgough 3mo ago
  Source? There are so many explanations for that beyond just "bike lanes kill businesses".
  - cyberax 3mo ago
    My own research, using business tax receipts following the same methodology as in PeopleForBikes papers. Yes, I'm compiling them into a book.
- Jtsummers 3mo ago
  > In Seattle and Portland the businesses within 1 block of new bike lanes declined faster after 2019. I wonder if there was some event that generally killed businesses relying on foot traffic some time after 2019 that could help explain that outcome. Perhaps once that event is identified, we can consider what businesses did survive and compare them to the foot traffic heavy businesses and see if there's some other qualitative difference between those that made it through and those that didn't.
  - themaninthedark 3mo ago
    I would appreciate sources from the GP but the claim was that businesses within 1 block of bike lanes declined faster then those without. The business community as a whole would be serving as the control for other external factors.
    - cyberax 3mo ago
      To be fair, I don't consider my research all that great. This is not a good methodology because it can be affected by hyperlocal effects. I just used the same approach as in papers that looked at the _benefits_ of bike lanes. There is very little good-quality research on wider impact of bike lanes on business in the US. One pre-COVID study found little effect in either direction when a large LA neighborhood added bike lanes. The only definitive result for the US is that bike lanes have very little impact on the absolute percentage of bike commutes (it stays around 2-3%).

by oblio 3mo ago

ck2 3mo ago

and completely seriously: 7. right-wing gains power and bans bike lanes anyway, labeling them "leftist" city after city in various states/countries but back to phones the real problem is they can't rule that parents must be responsible for their children I find the moral panic about kids with phones/internet access fascinating because of course it's a problem, but it's not the root cause of the problem ps. I am so old we weren't allowed to have calculators in school, absolutely forbidden

oblio 3mo ago
> the real problem is they can't rule that parents must be responsible for their children It's impossible for the average parent to police their child's smartphone. They just don't have, and never will have, the technical skills. > I find the moral panic about kids with phones/internet access fascinating And for those parents, which are quite rare, that do have the technical skills AND the involvement to ban smartphone usage at young ages, guess what. When Joey and Mickey and Sarah all have smartphones and are doom scrolling TikTok, even those parents lose. If all socializing moves to smartphones, the weirdo kids that don't have them or access to the "cool stuff" are automatically excluded. It's extremely alienating and nothing like not having calculators or PCs. Back in your day (or mine), huge corporations more akin to drug dealers employing tens of psychologists weren't trying to get kids addicted to calculators.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

nancyminusone 3mo ago

Must be location dependent. Where I live you never move beyond 2.

samtp 3mo ago

Agree with all of that but want to point out one thing that is almost always true re: businesses citing loss of parking to oppose bike lanes: 99% of the time the business owners are really just mad that they personally cannot park directly outside their business anymore. They may cite nonsensical things like 2 less parking spaces outside their business will lead to less customers, but what they are really mad about is their own personal parking space going away. Very dumb and selfish

cyberax 3mo ago

> 3. Residents discover bike lanes are quiet, and they also reduce ambient noise levels due to reduced car traffic, air is also cleaner, roads and intersections are safer. Except that 3 doesn't actually happen... Bike lanes stay empty and kill businesses. In Seattle and Portland the businesses within 1 block of new bike lanes declined faster after 2019.

jmcgough 3mo ago
Source? There are so many explanations for that beyond just "bike lanes kill businesses".
- cyberax 3mo ago
  My own research, using business tax receipts following the same methodology as in PeopleForBikes papers. Yes, I'm compiling them into a book.
Jtsummers 3mo ago
> In Seattle and Portland the businesses within 1 block of new bike lanes declined faster after 2019. I wonder if there was some event that generally killed businesses relying on foot traffic some time after 2019 that could help explain that outcome. Perhaps once that event is identified, we can consider what businesses did survive and compare them to the foot traffic heavy businesses and see if there's some other qualitative difference between those that made it through and those that didn't.
- themaninthedark 3mo ago
  I would appreciate sources from the GP but the claim was that businesses within 1 block of bike lanes declined faster then those without. The business community as a whole would be serving as the control for other external factors.
  - cyberax 3mo ago
    To be fair, I don't consider my research all that great. This is not a good methodology because it can be affected by hyperlocal effects. I just used the same approach as in papers that looked at the _benefits_ of bike lanes. There is very little good-quality research on wider impact of bike lanes on business in the US. One pre-COVID study found little effect in either direction when a large LA neighborhood added bike lanes. The only definitive result for the US is that bike lanes have very little impact on the absolute percentage of bike commutes (it stays around 2-3%).