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This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in
by beej71 3mo ago
This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in that timeframe.
IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.
- dataflow 3mo agoEdit: sorry, I misunderstood the post.
- moomin 3mo agoI think a better way of describing it would be, someone broke into your house. The police said they'd patrol it, but it would take 20 years to set up. In those 20 years, no-one broke into your house. You might suspect they had other reasons for wanting to patrol outside your house.
- continuational 3mo agoThe parent post is saying that the officer didn't show up for 20 years, with no burglaries in your neighborhood in between.
- iinnPP 3mo agoUnmentioned is the effect of having officers watch your home the entire time. Which is the tradeoff not worth the hassle for everyone.
- whimsicalism 3mo agoA national ID system (standard in effectively all European countries) is table stakes for state capacity. I find the RealID opposition baffling.
- redsocksfan45 3mo ago[dead]
- axus 3mo agoIn the US, we like to reduce state capacity. Helps limit the damage bad actors can do when they are in power.
- dpark 3mo agoThis seems deeply delusional at this point.
- markdown 3mo agoAs delusional as thinking the 2nd amendment will help "limit the damage bad actors can do when they are in power".
- whimsicalism 3mo agono, it’s actually the same delusion as that one
- anticensor 3mo agoExcept such a federal ID already exists: the Passport Card. Make it free to obtain and mandatory to use.
- mothballed 3mo agoPassport card can be revoked over fairly small amounts of late child support which applies to a surprisingly large portion of America, particularly historically oppressed minorities. It would be quite foolish to rely on that for identification if you have children as a simple divorce could put you in instant arrears and cause you to lose your ID.
- aboardRat4 3mo ago>Passport card can be revoked over fairly small amounts of late child support This is clearly ridiculous and not in any way connected to the reason passports exist. It's just purely bureaucratic tyranny. Even the stated goal of "preventing people from running away to other countries" doesn't work, because the USA doesn't have border service check the passport _on leaving_ the country.
- eesmith 3mo agoThe major European exception being the UK, which doesn't issue identity cards and somehow manages. (Apparently Andorra doesn't either.) You might consider it part of the Anglosphere mentality as Canada, the US, Australia, the Bahamas, and New Zealand don't have national ID. I've never understood the problem that RealID is supposed to solve. How is it TSA can accept a Veteran Health Identification Card or photo identification card issued by a federally recognized tribe, and the passports from every country in the world, but not a state-issued ID which is not REAL ID-compliant?
- aboardRat4 3mo ago>How is it TSA can accept a Veteran Health Identification Card or photo identification card issued by a federally recognized tribe, and the passports from every country in the world, but not a state-issued ID which is not REAL ID-compliant? They can only accept them before IDs are implemented of course, as a poor substitute. After national id documents are standardised, it's just them, nothing else counts.
- eesmith 3mo agoThat still doesn't tell me what problem it is supposed to solve.
- aboardRat4 3mo agoIsn't it nice to have a guaranteed way to prove that (1) you are you, that (2) you are a citizen, that (3) you are over 18, and that (4) you live where you live? Guaranteed in the sense that (a) it's available instantly, (b) everyone _has to_ accept it, because it's universal. So you don't have keep paid utility bills with your address, just show your ID card. You don't have to "register as a voter" ever again, just show your ID before getting a ballot. If you are worried that your tenant might happen to be an illegal migrant, and would risk being deported instead of paying rent next month, just make him show an ID before signing a rental agreement.
- 3mo ago
- matchstickman23 3mo agoNot to mention that to get around RealID with flights, you just have to pay $45 and you're good to go. Since we all know that bad actors don't have access to that sort of money...
- cramer4next 3mo agoCan you expand on this? How can you board a flight without realID for $45?
- tjbrock 3mo agoHave you been to an airport yet since it became mandatory? They actually have signs around stating it. I had similar thoughts as the GP about that.
- cramer4next 3mo agoNot for roughly the last 6 months. I have been using my passport because my old drivers license doesn't expire until next year. I'll have to look closer or read the signs then. Just never noticed that.
- matchstickman23 3mo agoYeah, I've been using my Nexus card, but I've flown with people who forgot their passport and didn't have RealID and they just have you go to a website, pay $45, and show them you've paid and you're on your way. It's very secure :)
- eesmith 3mo agoIt is called "TSA ConfirmID". https://www.tsa.gov/tsaconfirm-id https://www.tsa.gov/tsaconfirm-id "If you are unable to provide the required acceptable ID, such as a passport or REAL ID, you can pay a $45 fee to use TSA ConfirmID. TSA will then attempt to verify your identity so you can go through security; however, there is no guarantee TSA can do so." From https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-security-with-confirmid/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-security-with-confirmid/ : "TSA agents pull you aside for secondary screenings and to verify your identity. ... After looking me up in his system, [the supervisor] asked me a series of questions only I could answer (previous addresses and that sort of thing)."
- cco 3mo agoAnd also according to the DHS is apparently now insufficient to prove citizenship to vote, i.e. goal posts moved.
- arjie 3mo agoIs your RealID different? I’ve had one for ages and am not a US citizen. I can’t see how it could be proof of citizenship if I, a non-citizen, has one.
- cco 3mo agoI needed to supply all the necessary documents to prove citizenship, yeah. SSN and birth certificate. Sounds like RealID has other options for proving identity for non-citizens?
- arjie 3mo agoI have an SSN, of course, and an Indian passport and my green card. Looking online, a RealID is no guarantee of citizenship because it does not distinguish your ID from mine. California actually issued RealIDs that weren't actually valid but they cancelled them and followed-up to re-issue them. If you look at the docs for the most recent time I didn't actually need to prove US citizenship (which I cannot do because I am not American - yet) https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Real_ID_Cancellation https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Real_ID_Cancellation