4 ms·

ads are not bad. if it's publisher ads/native ads. the bad ad ecosystem is where there's whole demand, supply side platforms and ad exchanges that mine and sel

by dzonga 3mo ago

ads are not bad. if it's publisher ads/native ads. the bad ad ecosystem is where there's whole demand, supply side platforms and ad exchanges that mine and sell your data. now there's better tech to do native ads without the intrusion and massive bad experience. you're reading some article about EV's - then boom the publisher themselves can serve you a small ad - not serve you an ad about weight loss or viagra or any other shit stuff.

II2II 3mo ago
> now there's better tech to do native ads without the intrusion and massive bad experience .... the publisher themselves can serve you a small ad This has always been possible and, from my recollections, was how some early online advertising was done. (I don't know if it was ever the dominant model, but it was certainly more common.) I suspect the difficulty connecting content providers with advertisers is the root of them problem. After that, it takes effort to maintain that relationship. Having a third party handle everything is simply easier, especially for smaller web sites and smaller companies who want to advertise.
matheusmoreira 3mo ago
> ads are not bad Ads are noise deliberately added to the signal. They're content you did not seek out and probably don't want. All advertisements are inherently untrustworthy: they're getting paid to sell you something, naturally they will exaggerate the positives and downplay the negatives. Conflicts of interest doesn't even begin to describe it. That's the charitable interpretation. One could describe advertising as mind rape. You don't consent to it, you don't want it. They just keep trying to forcibly insert the data into your mind anyway. You block them, they bypass your blocker, which arguably makes them malware as well. They feel entitled to our cognition, memories, attention. They think it's theirs to sell off to the highest bidder. They make it even harder for people with attention deficit to concentrate by trying to forcibly grab their attention. It's not only an accessibility problem, it's also a form of aggression, which makes uBlock Origin a form of justified self-defense.
- tensor 3mo ago
 100% agree. Everyone is susceptible to ads, even if few believe it. The ad pushers know it. It's a form of information warfare, not simply business. If I'm looking for a product and ask a vendor to give me pitch, great. But if I'm doing something else and vendor propaganda is forced on me interrupting my task, that's not ok in any way.
- dzonga 3mo ago
 If I put out a native ad - uBlock Origin won't work on it. since it's just an html tag or any other element. the ad industry at large has caused damage - for you to think ads are not beneficial and intrusive or mind rape as you call it - through excessive mining, data selling. but like an example - I gave - there's an article about cars - and in there there's a text item that says BMW or Cadillac has released a new V8 or electric sedans. if you're a car enthusiast that's relevant to you, if you're not - it's still information that maybe a year down the line - you might find relevant. not logical but it works. and that's what runs the world - whether you like it or not. see the world as it is.
 - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
 > If I put out a native ad - uBlock Origin won't work on it. since it's just an html tag or any other element. It absolutely will. I routinely block all sorts of elements on pages. If I think your is annoying, it will get zapped with extreme prejudice. > there's an article about cars - and in there there's a text item that says BMW or Cadillac has released a new V8 or electric sedans That's just normal information. I don't consider it advertising. Users go to the site to read about cars, they're getting exactly what they wanted. If I go to the market, it's because I want to see the products. If I open the app, it's because I want to see the offerings. If I come to HN, it's because I want to see submissions and comments. In these cases, it's not advertising, it's the exact information I requested. It becomes advertising if they pay money to shove the products into my face while I'm trying to read a programming blog. > not logical but it works. and that's what runs the world - whether you like it or not. see the world as it is. Yeah, well the world sucks, the world is wrong and I'll fight it. I couldn't care less how much money they lose. My mind is sacred, and I don't have memory to waste on brands, slogans and jingles. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from literally banning advertising. It's a very simple policy decision. People just have to develop the audacity to demand it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cidade_Limpa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cidade_Limpa https://99percentinvisible.org/article/clean-city-law-secrets-sao-paulo-uncovered-outdoor-advertising-ban/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/clean-city-law-secret...
Altern4tiveAcc 3mo ago
> ads are not bad. Highly debatable, IMO. They're already a net negative for society on their own. We'd probably have a healthier Internet if ads didn't create incentives for social media companies to get their users addicted to serve them more ads.
- dzonga 3mo ago
  remove the internet - forget the internet didn't exist. you will see why the publishing business runs on ads. see the world for what it is not what you want it to be. once people started publishing books or whatever in the 1600s - the world runs on ads. it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities
  - akersten 3mo ago
    > it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities LOL, I take it you never saw the "doctors recommend Camel cigarettes" ads. Advertising is a plague.
  - lesostep 3mo ago
    >> once people started publishing books or whatever in the 1600s - the world runs on ads. I remember seeing old books (early victorian era) that were printed with healthy "subsidize" from the ad revenue. They honestly looked very much alike any site without ad blocker looks now. And I had the feeling that some content of the book was sponsored as well. Kept mentioning specific shops by name. I wonder what did we do right, to stop books from looking like that? Maybe it could help us fix internet issues.
  - Altern4tiveAcc 3mo ago
    >remove the internet - forget the internet didn't exist. Advertising as it exists today is tied to the Internet. > you will see why the publishing business runs on ads. And I maintain that tying business interests with advertising inevitably results in a conflict of interest between people producing goods and services, and people consuming them. >it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap It's only natural that ads started being viewed in a more negative way as their effects were amplified by tech. > due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities Name calling doesn't add much to this discussion. My background is in humanities anyway.

by dzonga 3mo ago

II2II 3mo ago

> now there's better tech to do native ads without the intrusion and massive bad experience .... the publisher themselves can serve you a small ad This has always been possible and, from my recollections, was how some early online advertising was done. (I don't know if it was ever the dominant model, but it was certainly more common.) I suspect the difficulty connecting content providers with advertisers is the root of them problem. After that, it takes effort to maintain that relationship. Having a third party handle everything is simply easier, especially for smaller web sites and smaller companies who want to advertise.

matheusmoreira 3mo ago

> ads are not bad Ads are noise deliberately added to the signal. They're content you did not seek out and probably don't want. All advertisements are inherently untrustworthy: they're getting paid to sell you something, naturally they will exaggerate the positives and downplay the negatives. Conflicts of interest doesn't even begin to describe it. That's the charitable interpretation. One could describe advertising as mind rape. You don't consent to it, you don't want it. They just keep trying to forcibly insert the data into your mind anyway. You block them, they bypass your blocker, which arguably makes them malware as well. They feel entitled to our cognition, memories, attention. They think it's theirs to sell off to the highest bidder. They make it even harder for people with attention deficit to concentrate by trying to forcibly grab their attention. It's not only an accessibility problem, it's also a form of aggression, which makes uBlock Origin a form of justified self-defense.

tensor 3mo ago
100% agree. Everyone is susceptible to ads, even if few believe it. The ad pushers know it. It's a form of information warfare, not simply business. If I'm looking for a product and ask a vendor to give me pitch, great. But if I'm doing something else and vendor propaganda is forced on me interrupting my task, that's not ok in any way.
dzonga 3mo ago
If I put out a native ad - uBlock Origin won't work on it. since it's just an html tag or any other element. the ad industry at large has caused damage - for you to think ads are not beneficial and intrusive or mind rape as you call it - through excessive mining, data selling. but like an example - I gave - there's an article about cars - and in there there's a text item that says BMW or Cadillac has released a new V8 or electric sedans. if you're a car enthusiast that's relevant to you, if you're not - it's still information that maybe a year down the line - you might find relevant. not logical but it works. and that's what runs the world - whether you like it or not. see the world as it is.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
 > If I put out a native ad - uBlock Origin won't work on it. since it's just an html tag or any other element. It absolutely will. I routinely block all sorts of elements on pages. If I think your is annoying, it will get zapped with extreme prejudice. > there's an article about cars - and in there there's a text item that says BMW or Cadillac has released a new V8 or electric sedans That's just normal information. I don't consider it advertising. Users go to the site to read about cars, they're getting exactly what they wanted. If I go to the market, it's because I want to see the products. If I open the app, it's because I want to see the offerings. If I come to HN, it's because I want to see submissions and comments. In these cases, it's not advertising, it's the exact information I requested. It becomes advertising if they pay money to shove the products into my face while I'm trying to read a programming blog. > not logical but it works. and that's what runs the world - whether you like it or not. see the world as it is. Yeah, well the world sucks, the world is wrong and I'll fight it. I couldn't care less how much money they lose. My mind is sacred, and I don't have memory to waste on brands, slogans and jingles. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from literally banning advertising. It's a very simple policy decision. People just have to develop the audacity to demand it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cidade_Limpa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cidade_Limpa https://99percentinvisible.org/article/clean-city-law-secrets-sao-paulo-uncovered-outdoor-advertising-ban/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/clean-city-law-secret...

Altern4tiveAcc 3mo ago

> ads are not bad. Highly debatable, IMO. They're already a net negative for society on their own. We'd probably have a healthier Internet if ads didn't create incentives for social media companies to get their users addicted to serve them more ads.

dzonga 3mo ago
remove the internet - forget the internet didn't exist. you will see why the publishing business runs on ads. see the world for what it is not what you want it to be. once people started publishing books or whatever in the 1600s - the world runs on ads. it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities
- akersten 3mo ago
  > it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities LOL, I take it you never saw the "doctors recommend Camel cigarettes" ads. Advertising is a plague.
- lesostep 3mo ago
  >> once people started publishing books or whatever in the 1600s - the world runs on ads. I remember seeing old books (early victorian era) that were printed with healthy "subsidize" from the ad revenue. They honestly looked very much alike any site without ad blocker looks now. And I had the feeling that some content of the book was sponsored as well. Kept mentioning specific shops by name. I wonder what did we do right, to stop books from looking like that? Maybe it could help us fix internet issues.
- Altern4tiveAcc 3mo ago
  >remove the internet - forget the internet didn't exist. Advertising as it exists today is tied to the Internet. > you will see why the publishing business runs on ads. And I maintain that tying business interests with advertising inevitably results in a conflict of interest between people producing goods and services, and people consuming them. >it's only in the last 30 years - when ads got a bad rap It's only natural that ads started being viewed in a more negative way as their effects were amplified by tech. > due to tech bros who don't didn't learn humanities Name calling doesn't add much to this discussion. My background is in humanities anyway.