4 ms·

Agree and so sick of this being thrown around. Such an overreaction and mischaracterization. Being unable to evaluate an anti immigration party without labeli

Agree and so sick of this being thrown around. Such an overreaction and mischaracterization. Being unable to evaluate an anti immigration party without labeling them ethnonationist shows a pretty glaring blind spot.

inigyou 3mo ago
They said non-Swedish people would be expelled from the country. How isn't that ethnonationalist?
- dijit 3mo ago
  I am also an immigrant to Sweden. And, to be fair, I also haven't integrated perfectly well (I scarcely speak Swedish)- but I pay a lot of taxes and I don't do any crimes. I would suspect that the Orebro party doesn't really have a problem with me, though they would start to have an issue if I started bringing my home countries problems with me, or if I started trying to bend society to my will- or if I never paid any taxes and had to live my entire life on welfare... or if I committed crimes. I can't say for sure, since the only thing I know about the party itself is learning about it from this incident, but based on my conversations with conservative SD supporting Swedes, this is probably the case. If so, then unfortunately, I (and many other immigrants, especially those from the Balkans in the 90s) likely support this idea.
  - Gud 3mo ago
    I am a migrant FROM Sweden(to Switzerland) and the Swedes absolutely want you to speak Swedish. At least this has been my experience living in Switzerland. They prefer that I speak broken German rather than English. Even many who speak English flawlessly. But you will be tolerated if you are overall a net contributor, that is right.
    - dijit 3mo ago
      Yes, that's fair, I think tolerated is the right word. I'm tolerated for not speaking Swedish, but I would not be tolerated if I was a criminal, went directly against Swedish values loudly or was a net drain on society in some other way.
      - inigyou 3mo ago
        Well, this guy's party would end that toleration because you don't have Swedish ancestry. Is that good?
        dijit 3mo ago
        [dead]
        Gud 3mo ago
        No, not all all? Markus Allard doesn't seem to want to kick out productive members of society.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        Who decides who those are, eh?
        Gud 3mo ago
        I think it’s pretty straightforward, and I suspect most people do. If your working and paying taxes and otherwise integrating, you are.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        What does "otherwise integrating" mean, and do you really want to expel everyone who receives tax money (so the entire government) and everyone who is unemployed?
  - customguy 3mo ago
    The question wasn't "is there anybody who supports this", but how that isn't ethnonationalist.
- nopromisessir 3mo ago
  There may be people in the party who want to expel folks just because they are not 'Swedish'. I doubt that's the official party line. If it is, perhaps you can find me a citation on that. The distinction is that a person can be ethnicity agnostic while being very strict about deporting immigrants who commit crimes. In the case of Sweden, it appears to me that the evidence indicates the primary concern is folks born to non-native parents. See the exert below from their Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention: "The proportion of the various groups registered as suspects for any type of crime are as follows: • 3.2 percent of persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents (4.8 percent of men, 1.5 percent of women). • 5.9 percent of persons born in Sweden to one non-native parent (8.6 percent of men, 3.1 percent of women). • 10.2 percent of persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents (15.3 percent of men, 4.8 percent of women). • 8.0 percent of persons born abroad (12.2 of men, 3.9 percent of women)." https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966... If I am a true-blue ethnonationalist, I want all non-Swedish ethnicities deported/remigrated or relegated to lower social status. This would be the Nazi position... White skin blue eyes = superior. If I am a tough on crime migrant skeptic, I call for deportation of non-native's who commit crimes without concern for their specific ethnicity/origin. I can't be in the Nazi party, because I don't think German descent people are superior. I think anyone who migrates to our country and then commits crimes is undesirable. I would just as easily call for the deportation of any ethnic background. I looked into this a bit, because I was curious if there was actual evidence driving these political movements. As it turns out, there is and it has been studied. The primary pain point(crime) comes in when the 2nd generation doesn't economically assimilate. If a non-native family economically assimilates they then apparently actually have lower likelihood of criminal activity than a native family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_...

inigyou 3mo ago

They said non-Swedish people would be expelled from the country. How isn't that ethnonationalist?

dijit 3mo ago
I am also an immigrant to Sweden. And, to be fair, I also haven't integrated perfectly well (I scarcely speak Swedish)- but I pay a lot of taxes and I don't do any crimes. I would suspect that the Orebro party doesn't really have a problem with me, though they would start to have an issue if I started bringing my home countries problems with me, or if I started trying to bend society to my will- or if I never paid any taxes and had to live my entire life on welfare... or if I committed crimes. I can't say for sure, since the only thing I know about the party itself is learning about it from this incident, but based on my conversations with conservative SD supporting Swedes, this is probably the case. If so, then unfortunately, I (and many other immigrants, especially those from the Balkans in the 90s) likely support this idea.
- Gud 3mo ago
  I am a migrant FROM Sweden(to Switzerland) and the Swedes absolutely want you to speak Swedish. At least this has been my experience living in Switzerland. They prefer that I speak broken German rather than English. Even many who speak English flawlessly. But you will be tolerated if you are overall a net contributor, that is right.
  - dijit 3mo ago
    Yes, that's fair, I think tolerated is the right word. I'm tolerated for not speaking Swedish, but I would not be tolerated if I was a criminal, went directly against Swedish values loudly or was a net drain on society in some other way.
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      Well, this guy's party would end that toleration because you don't have Swedish ancestry. Is that good?
      - dijit 3mo ago
        [dead]
      - Gud 3mo ago
        No, not all all? Markus Allard doesn't seem to want to kick out productive members of society.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        Who decides who those are, eh?
        Gud 3mo ago
        I think it’s pretty straightforward, and I suspect most people do. If your working and paying taxes and otherwise integrating, you are.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        What does "otherwise integrating" mean, and do you really want to expel everyone who receives tax money (so the entire government) and everyone who is unemployed?
- customguy 3mo ago
  The question wasn't "is there anybody who supports this", but how that isn't ethnonationalist.
nopromisessir 3mo ago
There may be people in the party who want to expel folks just because they are not 'Swedish'. I doubt that's the official party line. If it is, perhaps you can find me a citation on that. The distinction is that a person can be ethnicity agnostic while being very strict about deporting immigrants who commit crimes. In the case of Sweden, it appears to me that the evidence indicates the primary concern is folks born to non-native parents. See the exert below from their Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention: "The proportion of the various groups registered as suspects for any type of crime are as follows: • 3.2 percent of persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents (4.8 percent of men, 1.5 percent of women). • 5.9 percent of persons born in Sweden to one non-native parent (8.6 percent of men, 3.1 percent of women). • 10.2 percent of persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents (15.3 percent of men, 4.8 percent of women). • 8.0 percent of persons born abroad (12.2 of men, 3.9 percent of women)." https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966... If I am a true-blue ethnonationalist, I want all non-Swedish ethnicities deported/remigrated or relegated to lower social status. This would be the Nazi position... White skin blue eyes = superior. If I am a tough on crime migrant skeptic, I call for deportation of non-native's who commit crimes without concern for their specific ethnicity/origin. I can't be in the Nazi party, because I don't think German descent people are superior. I think anyone who migrates to our country and then commits crimes is undesirable. I would just as easily call for the deportation of any ethnic background. I looked into this a bit, because I was curious if there was actual evidence driving these political movements. As it turns out, there is and it has been studied. The primary pain point(crime) comes in when the 2nd generation doesn't economically assimilate. If a non-native family economically assimilates they then apparently actually have lower likelihood of criminal activity than a native family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
- inigyou 3mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_...