3 ms·

Yes, I'm sure the reason the UK had its hottest mean June temperature ever and recorded its highest ever June temperature in the village of Lingwood, Norfolk

Yes, I'm sure the reason the UK had its hottest mean June temperature ever and recorded its highest ever June temperature in the village of Lingwood, Norfolk is all down to how many weather stations are located next to runways.

inigyou 3mo ago
That's the reason the banana trees are growing, too. They read the temperature measurements from next to the airport runways.
mike_hearn 3mo ago
The Lingwood site is class 5 because it's in some guy's garden and surrounded by trees/hedges that block airflow. Class 5 sites have +/- 5 degrees of uncertainty and shouldn't be used for climatology under any circumstances. As to the runway point you're being sarcastic about - yes, that can happen. The UK set a record temperature in July 2022, which the BBC reports was set at Coningsby in Lincolnshire: https://www.bbc.com/weather/articles/crm04vm30x9o https://www.bbc.com/weather/articles/crm04vm30x9o In fact it was set at RAF Coningsby at the exact moment two Typhoon fighter jets landed, and lasted only for a minute or two i.e. it was recording jet exhaust from the landing. This fact had to be dug up through FOIA requests, it wasn't advertised by the Met Office or British media anywhere. Brits were led to believe this had occurred in some open field near a village somewhere. Every time you read about a record breaking temperature in Britain, you aren't being told about the atrocious state of the weather station network there. Almost all the records are being set at weather stations that can't measure change in the climate due to urban corruption or being sited at runways.
- notahacker 3mo ago
  OK, got you. Clearly everywhere that recorded record temperatures last month was either next to a runway or in heat islands (which we definitely haven't had for decades) or in someone's garden, whereas all the historical benchmarks exceeded were flawless. The UK recording a temperature of over 40 celsius was actually an anomaly because of the first time a jet ever landed at a British airport. Also the lack of rain was measurement error too.
  - mike_hearn 3mo ago
    It was clearly hot last month, but that isn't what anyone is arguing about in this thread. Hot months have happened throughout history. inigyou scoffed at the idea the appearance of long term climate change can be caused by immigration. But they shouldn't have scoffed, because it's one of the primary drivers of data difficulties in climatology. Do you accept this fact?
    - notahacker 3mo ago
      Your argument for "the appearance of long term climate change can be caused by immigration" is that an individual high temperature was recorded at an RAF base, ironically one of the places in the country you're least likely to find an immigrant. It was one of a number of places to record a temperature over 40 degrees, compared with the previous high point of 38.7 degrees (including all the airports and RAF bases and urban heat islands). Indeed even if we choose to believe Toby Young's tinfoil hat brigade's claims that it was definitely boosted by a jet engine and not the more standard explanation for minute-to-minute temperature rises of the sun coming out, it was still hotter than any previous day ever recorded anywhere in the UK before that supposed jet engine landing, and I'm pretty sure we've landed jets there in summer before. Nobody honestly believes that the reason the UK is recording hotter temperatures all over the country is because immigration is driving Typhoons to land differently at RAF Coningsby
      - mike_hearn 3mo ago
        You're clearly not arguing in good faith, so I'll just leave it with this: > and not the more standard explanation for minute-to-minute temperature rises of the sun coming out It was a cloudless day.
        notahacker 3mo ago
        I mean, it's better faith in the original argument which was a bunch of ludicrous FUD blaming measurement error for climate change, as if thermometers hadn't been located near heat islands and airports for decades and crank blogs had a better idea how to deal with measurement error than meteorologists. The irony is I could actually make a better argument for immigration being a factor in climate change (moving to a more economically developed country really does increase your carbon footprint...) but that would involve actually acknowledging it's an issue and other people cause it too... If you had an actual answer for what made the temperature higher on that day at that site (and 46 other sites) than it had ever been there or anywhere else (including all the other airports and heat islands) even before aircraft allegedly landed, and what Typhoon operations have to do with immigration anyway, you wouldn't be stuck repeating the unsupported claims of a political blog about the absence of cloud (the Met Office recorded cloud coverage of 1 oktas at 3pm at that site that day, but I guess Chris Morrison who wasn't there and doesn't exactly hide his partisanship is wayyy more reliable than the weather station's lidar)
- benj111 3mo ago
  But it's still hotter than any previous time 2 typhoon fighters landed. So unless you want to put that down to the new houses put up, it means that temperatures have gone up.
  - 20after4 3mo ago
    Maybe the fighter jets switched to a different kind of fuel and are now producing hotter exhaust. </s>
vixen99 3mo ago
Some time ago an FOI (Freedom of Information) request to the UK Met Office got the following response: Background: Class 1–2 are regarded as excellent or very good exposures, Class 3 permits uncertainties up to about 1 °C, Class 4 permits uncertainties up to about 2 °C, and Class 5 permits uncertainties up to about 5 °C because of nearby artificial heat sources or other exposure problems. According to analyses of the released data, approximately: 22% of stations were Classes 1–3, about 49% were Class 4, about 29% were Class 5. I guess there must be very good reasons for not ensuring that the majority of stations are Class 1-3.
- inigyou 3mo ago
  What's involved in ensuring a weather station meets class 1 requirements?
  - notahacker 3mo ago
    It's a theoretical optimum location for measuring whether temperature at a weather station is likely to be representative of average temperature across the surrounding area, with requirements for flatness of land, vegetation of the appropriate type and height, no shade between sunrise and sunset, no windbreaks and distance from reflective surfaces. Has nothing to do with its suitability for use in longitudinal study, because whilst a site next to a massive concrete windbreak might be a degree or two hotter than other locations in a region, unless the concrete windbreak is a recent phenomenon, it can't be the cause of temperatures at that site being higher in the 2020s than they were in the 2000s or 1970s...

inigyou 3mo ago

That's the reason the banana trees are growing, too. They read the temperature measurements from next to the airport runways.

mike_hearn 3mo ago

The Lingwood site is class 5 because it's in some guy's garden and surrounded by trees/hedges that block airflow. Class 5 sites have +/- 5 degrees of uncertainty and shouldn't be used for climatology under any circumstances. As to the runway point you're being sarcastic about - yes, that can happen. The UK set a record temperature in July 2022, which the BBC reports was set at Coningsby in Lincolnshire: https://www.bbc.com/weather/articles/crm04vm30x9o https://www.bbc.com/weather/articles/crm04vm30x9o In fact it was set at RAF Coningsby at the exact moment two Typhoon fighter jets landed, and lasted only for a minute or two i.e. it was recording jet exhaust from the landing. This fact had to be dug up through FOIA requests, it wasn't advertised by the Met Office or British media anywhere. Brits were led to believe this had occurred in some open field near a village somewhere. Every time you read about a record breaking temperature in Britain, you aren't being told about the atrocious state of the weather station network there. Almost all the records are being set at weather stations that can't measure change in the climate due to urban corruption or being sited at runways.

notahacker 3mo ago
OK, got you. Clearly everywhere that recorded record temperatures last month was either next to a runway or in heat islands (which we definitely haven't had for decades) or in someone's garden, whereas all the historical benchmarks exceeded were flawless. The UK recording a temperature of over 40 celsius was actually an anomaly because of the first time a jet ever landed at a British airport. Also the lack of rain was measurement error too.
- mike_hearn 3mo ago
  It was clearly hot last month, but that isn't what anyone is arguing about in this thread. Hot months have happened throughout history. inigyou scoffed at the idea the appearance of long term climate change can be caused by immigration. But they shouldn't have scoffed, because it's one of the primary drivers of data difficulties in climatology. Do you accept this fact?
  - notahacker 3mo ago
    Your argument for "the appearance of long term climate change can be caused by immigration" is that an individual high temperature was recorded at an RAF base, ironically one of the places in the country you're least likely to find an immigrant. It was one of a number of places to record a temperature over 40 degrees, compared with the previous high point of 38.7 degrees (including all the airports and RAF bases and urban heat islands). Indeed even if we choose to believe Toby Young's tinfoil hat brigade's claims that it was definitely boosted by a jet engine and not the more standard explanation for minute-to-minute temperature rises of the sun coming out, it was still hotter than any previous day ever recorded anywhere in the UK before that supposed jet engine landing, and I'm pretty sure we've landed jets there in summer before. Nobody honestly believes that the reason the UK is recording hotter temperatures all over the country is because immigration is driving Typhoons to land differently at RAF Coningsby
    - mike_hearn 3mo ago
      You're clearly not arguing in good faith, so I'll just leave it with this: > and not the more standard explanation for minute-to-minute temperature rises of the sun coming out It was a cloudless day.
      - notahacker 3mo ago
        I mean, it's better faith in the original argument which was a bunch of ludicrous FUD blaming measurement error for climate change, as if thermometers hadn't been located near heat islands and airports for decades and crank blogs had a better idea how to deal with measurement error than meteorologists. The irony is I could actually make a better argument for immigration being a factor in climate change (moving to a more economically developed country really does increase your carbon footprint...) but that would involve actually acknowledging it's an issue and other people cause it too... If you had an actual answer for what made the temperature higher on that day at that site (and 46 other sites) than it had ever been there or anywhere else (including all the other airports and heat islands) even before aircraft allegedly landed, and what Typhoon operations have to do with immigration anyway, you wouldn't be stuck repeating the unsupported claims of a political blog about the absence of cloud (the Met Office recorded cloud coverage of 1 oktas at 3pm at that site that day, but I guess Chris Morrison who wasn't there and doesn't exactly hide his partisanship is wayyy more reliable than the weather station's lidar)
benj111 3mo ago
But it's still hotter than any previous time 2 typhoon fighters landed. So unless you want to put that down to the new houses put up, it means that temperatures have gone up.
- 20after4 3mo ago
  Maybe the fighter jets switched to a different kind of fuel and are now producing hotter exhaust. </s>

vixen99 3mo ago

Some time ago an FOI (Freedom of Information) request to the UK Met Office got the following response: Background: Class 1–2 are regarded as excellent or very good exposures, Class 3 permits uncertainties up to about 1 °C, Class 4 permits uncertainties up to about 2 °C, and Class 5 permits uncertainties up to about 5 °C because of nearby artificial heat sources or other exposure problems. According to analyses of the released data, approximately: 22% of stations were Classes 1–3, about 49% were Class 4, about 29% were Class 5. I guess there must be very good reasons for not ensuring that the majority of stations are Class 1-3.

inigyou 3mo ago
What's involved in ensuring a weather station meets class 1 requirements?
- notahacker 3mo ago
  It's a theoretical optimum location for measuring whether temperature at a weather station is likely to be representative of average temperature across the surrounding area, with requirements for flatness of land, vegetation of the appropriate type and height, no shade between sunrise and sunset, no windbreaks and distance from reflective surfaces. Has nothing to do with its suitability for use in longitudinal study, because whilst a site next to a massive concrete windbreak might be a degree or two hotter than other locations in a region, unless the concrete windbreak is a recent phenomenon, it can't be the cause of temperatures at that site being higher in the 2020s than they were in the 2000s or 1970s...