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The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series consoles launched in Fall of 2020. That’s almost 6 years ago. The PlayStation 6 and the new Xbox should be launching soon. If

The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series consoles launched in Fall of 2020. That’s almost 6 years ago. The PlayStation 6 and the new Xbox should be launching soon. If not this fall then perhaps next fall when it will be 7 years from the launch of the current generation. How will the memory crisis impact all of this? Also I find it kind of ironic. In the 2010’s PC gamers would go online all the time and sneer about how consoles were holding back PC gaming. How they could upgrade their PC’s but games were still not unlocking the full potential of their PCs due to having to optimize for the old PS4 and Xbox One hardware. And now on the same forums PC gamers actually keep talking about how they don’t want Sony and Microsoft to release new hardware. And they talk about how devs should be optimizing for old hardware. So many complaints about Doom The Dark Ages requiring ray tracing and requiring new hardware…. The hardware that Doom the Dark Ages (2025) requires all came out a few years prior. Imagine somebody in 2004 when Half life 2 came out complaining their Half life 1 (1998) hardware didn’t work for that game…but that’s what many gamers online said when their rigs that could play Doom Eternal (2020) couldn’t play Doom the Dark Ages (2025). “How the turn tables” as Michael Scott famously said I guess.

aurareturn 3mo ago
Besides the AI shortage, Moore’s Law has ended which means in order to get faster chips, you have to use bigger dies, fancier packaging, more cooling, more power. This increases costs. A PS6 really doesn’t increase much over the PS5 even without the AI shortage. You’re probably getting doubled the performance at best, which barely makes a noticeable difference in gaming when PS1 to PS2 had 180x better GPU. I think the next leap has to come from mostly software and I think we will move towards a world in which most/all of the rendering is done by an AI. See Google’s Genie3.
- mfro 3mo ago
  The reality is more along the lines of traditional rendering with special ML models inferring and splicing in generated frames. Framegen is already in most modern games and Nvidia has made it a driver level option for many unsupported ones. In case you haven’t used it — it is black magic. Studios will have almost no motivation to optimize if framegen can be perfected, and it’s not far.
  - saghm 3mo ago
    Hopefully Nvidia doesn't try to bundle a bunch of slop to completely change faces of characters with AI into future framegen updates (claiming that it's in control of the developers but then not even checking with the devs of the game they put into the trailer for it) like they did last time... https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/nvidias-ceo-goes-full-principal-skinner-in-response-to-dlss-5-backlash-says-its-the-gamers-who-are-completely-wrong https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/nvidias-ceo-goes-ful...
- SapporoChris 3mo ago
  Your conclusion that "... in order to get faster chips, you have to use bigger dies, fancier packaging, more cooling, more power.", is really not supported by the ending of Moore's law. Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit (IC) doubles about every two years, with minimal increase in cost.
  - aurareturn 3mo ago
    Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit (IC) doubles about every two years, with minimal increase in cost. Exactly. That is no longer true.
  - ahartmetz 3mo ago
    In any case, hardware progress has slowed to a crawl. Maybe a new console every 10 years makes sense now.
weezing 3mo ago
This gotta be least memorable generation of all time. Nothing worth noting released on those consoles.
- musicale 3mo ago
  > Nothing worth noting released on those consoles Have you heard of Elden Ring? Or is your complaint about cross-gen, timed exclusives, and PC releases? Or that there aren't enough new franchises beyond established series and remakes? Personally I see all of the above as fine. For example Capcom has Resident Evil Requiem (series), Onimusha (remake), and Pragmata (new).
  - weezing 3mo ago
    All PC games. This generation of consoles was just worthless, no meaningful exclusives. The only thing that might save them is GTA VI.
    - musicale 3mo ago
      GTA6 is presumably a timed exclusive, so why ignore other timed console exclusives like... FFXVI, FF7 Remake, God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West, Stellar Blade, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding 2, Spider-Man 2, Rise of the Ronin, etc.? And what about Astro Bot, Demon's Souls, Ghost of Yotei, Gran Turismo 7, Saros, Sons of Sparta, ...? Or anything by Nintendo?
      - pjmlp 3mo ago
        Looks to back catalogue since ZX Spectrum, Amiga and all the other systems, available on PC.
        musicale 3mo ago
        Pretty much this. Everything is a timed exclusive and eventually available on PC through emulation etc. That being said, it's still nice to be able to easily run something like Demon's Souls, Fable 2/3, or the latest Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokémon/Fire Emblem/Animal Crossing/etc. without having to mess with emulation. The games that really seem to have vanished into the sands of time are MMOs with no available private server. Though I still hope to be able to play DC Universe Online, Wildstar, etc. someday.
dartharva 3mo ago
The video games market currently has a lot more problems going on than just hardware scarcity. Just like how streaming has slopified and gutted Hollywood and cinema production in general [0], subscription-based business models and consumer-hostile delivery have done the same to video games. Gone are the days when studios used to focus on novelty and creativity, now it is all about engagement metrics and RoI slop. [0] https://youtu.be/g6YvkbqAhAY https://youtu.be/g6YvkbqAhAY
- musicale 3mo ago
  There are still lots of great games though.
  - dartharva 3mo ago
    Yes, but bar a few outliers they are not of interest to large publishers and producers.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
    - musicale 3mo ago
      Large publishers (and studios) tend to go for large games and usually some combination of sure bets (series, remakes) with a smaller number of riskier bets (new properties). Fortunately there are tons of smaller producers and we have digital storefronts (Steam etc.) Medium-sized publishers like Devolver, Annapurna, or Humble Games are an interesting middle ground.
ndriscoll 3mo ago
It's probably more that hardware and software were still rapidly getting better in 2004, and HL2 looked significantly better than HL1. By contrast, just looking up the two on youtube, Doom the Dark Ages on ps5 pro isn't obviously any better looking than, say, Skyrim (2011). Even Morrowind looks pretty good with some high resolution pbr textures and a few new shaders.
pjmlp 3mo ago
> That’s almost 6 years ago. The PlayStation 6 and the new Xbox should be launching soon. If not this fall then perhaps next fall when it will be 7 years from the launch of the current generation. They most likely won't. Also given the current mess XBOX management happens to be in, as someone that has been on PC since 1991, I don't have big hopes Helix actually happens, or if they do release it, it would most likely be to comply with existing contracts and avoid possible lawsuits.

aurareturn 3mo ago

Besides the AI shortage, Moore’s Law has ended which means in order to get faster chips, you have to use bigger dies, fancier packaging, more cooling, more power. This increases costs. A PS6 really doesn’t increase much over the PS5 even without the AI shortage. You’re probably getting doubled the performance at best, which barely makes a noticeable difference in gaming when PS1 to PS2 had 180x better GPU. I think the next leap has to come from mostly software and I think we will move towards a world in which most/all of the rendering is done by an AI. See Google’s Genie3.

mfro 3mo ago
The reality is more along the lines of traditional rendering with special ML models inferring and splicing in generated frames. Framegen is already in most modern games and Nvidia has made it a driver level option for many unsupported ones. In case you haven’t used it — it is black magic. Studios will have almost no motivation to optimize if framegen can be perfected, and it’s not far.
- saghm 3mo ago
  Hopefully Nvidia doesn't try to bundle a bunch of slop to completely change faces of characters with AI into future framegen updates (claiming that it's in control of the developers but then not even checking with the devs of the game they put into the trailer for it) like they did last time... https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/nvidias-ceo-goes-full-principal-skinner-in-response-to-dlss-5-backlash-says-its-the-gamers-who-are-completely-wrong https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/nvidias-ceo-goes-ful...
SapporoChris 3mo ago
Your conclusion that "... in order to get faster chips, you have to use bigger dies, fancier packaging, more cooling, more power.", is really not supported by the ending of Moore's law. Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit (IC) doubles about every two years, with minimal increase in cost.
- aurareturn 3mo ago
  Moore's law is the observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit (IC) doubles about every two years, with minimal increase in cost. Exactly. That is no longer true.
- ahartmetz 3mo ago
  In any case, hardware progress has slowed to a crawl. Maybe a new console every 10 years makes sense now.

weezing 3mo ago

This gotta be least memorable generation of all time. Nothing worth noting released on those consoles.

musicale 3mo ago
> Nothing worth noting released on those consoles Have you heard of Elden Ring? Or is your complaint about cross-gen, timed exclusives, and PC releases? Or that there aren't enough new franchises beyond established series and remakes? Personally I see all of the above as fine. For example Capcom has Resident Evil Requiem (series), Onimusha (remake), and Pragmata (new).
- weezing 3mo ago
  All PC games. This generation of consoles was just worthless, no meaningful exclusives. The only thing that might save them is GTA VI.
  - musicale 3mo ago
    GTA6 is presumably a timed exclusive, so why ignore other timed console exclusives like... FFXVI, FF7 Remake, God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West, Stellar Blade, Ghost of Tsushima, Death Stranding 2, Spider-Man 2, Rise of the Ronin, etc.? And what about Astro Bot, Demon's Souls, Ghost of Yotei, Gran Turismo 7, Saros, Sons of Sparta, ...? Or anything by Nintendo?
    - pjmlp 3mo ago
      Looks to back catalogue since ZX Spectrum, Amiga and all the other systems, available on PC.
      - musicale 3mo ago
        Pretty much this. Everything is a timed exclusive and eventually available on PC through emulation etc. That being said, it's still nice to be able to easily run something like Demon's Souls, Fable 2/3, or the latest Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokémon/Fire Emblem/Animal Crossing/etc. without having to mess with emulation. The games that really seem to have vanished into the sands of time are MMOs with no available private server. Though I still hope to be able to play DC Universe Online, Wildstar, etc. someday.

dartharva 3mo ago

The video games market currently has a lot more problems going on than just hardware scarcity. Just like how streaming has slopified and gutted Hollywood and cinema production in general [0], subscription-based business models and consumer-hostile delivery have done the same to video games. Gone are the days when studios used to focus on novelty and creativity, now it is all about engagement metrics and RoI slop. [0] https://youtu.be/g6YvkbqAhAY https://youtu.be/g6YvkbqAhAY

musicale 3mo ago
There are still lots of great games though.
- dartharva 3mo ago
  Yes, but bar a few outliers they are not of interest to large publishers and producers.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  - musicale 3mo ago
    Large publishers (and studios) tend to go for large games and usually some combination of sure bets (series, remakes) with a smaller number of riskier bets (new properties). Fortunately there are tons of smaller producers and we have digital storefronts (Steam etc.) Medium-sized publishers like Devolver, Annapurna, or Humble Games are an interesting middle ground.

ndriscoll 3mo ago

It's probably more that hardware and software were still rapidly getting better in 2004, and HL2 looked significantly better than HL1. By contrast, just looking up the two on youtube, Doom the Dark Ages on ps5 pro isn't obviously any better looking than, say, Skyrim (2011). Even Morrowind looks pretty good with some high resolution pbr textures and a few new shaders.

pjmlp 3mo ago

> That’s almost 6 years ago. The PlayStation 6 and the new Xbox should be launching soon. If not this fall then perhaps next fall when it will be 7 years from the launch of the current generation. They most likely won't. Also given the current mess XBOX management happens to be in, as someone that has been on PC since 1991, I don't have big hopes Helix actually happens, or if they do release it, it would most likely be to comply with existing contracts and avoid possible lawsuits.