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There is square footage on many NYC listings, but it’s wrong. They often have the square footage of the total area occupied by the apartment, including all the

There is square footage on many NYC listings, but it’s wrong. They often have the square footage of the total area occupied by the apartment, including all the interior walls and columns that can take 20% of the area away.

luckman212 3mo ago
Don't forget about those common areas too! I've seen many cases where hallways, elevators, and stairwells were included in the square footage numbers.
- JoshTriplett 2mo ago
  The normal definition of square footage I've seen typically includes hallways and stairs. (Though often not garages.) Personally, I wish we would normalize including exact floor plans with measurements.
  - hirsin 2mo ago
    They mean the apartment building hallways and elevators. As in, if you summed the square footage of all the apartments on a floor, you'd get a number greater than the actual dimensions of the floor, because the common areas are counted multiple times.
    - hirako2000 2mo ago
      Could include the size of the pavements fronting the building and the basement with those trash bin also are shared space.
    - close04 2mo ago
      That shouldn’t be the case. In some cases it would also be ridiculous, when the common areas are larger than the apartments themselves (corridors, elevators, technical rooms, etc.). They do include the proportional square footage corresponding to each apartment. But this is still very misleading because some buildings have a lot of common areas that can double the advertised size of the very small apartments.
    - JoshTriplett 2mo ago
      Oh, I see. Yeah, that's false advertising. "Square footage" of a dwelling should only include your own private space, not any common areas.
jfrbfbreudh 2mo ago
I didn’t know the square footage of my apartment until I had built an app that utilizes LiDAR to actually measure it. Broker told me 650 square feet - it’s precisely 505 square feet. (Won’t advertise my app, but you can find many on the iOS App Store). Would be nice for StreetEasy to have some kind of third party verification about apartment size claims.
- kirubakaran 2mo ago
  Do mention your app! HN only frowns upon astroturfing. If you disclose that it is your app, then it's fine to link to it.
- filoleg 2mo ago
  If you are hesitant to mention it in the comments, please consider at least putting it in your profile bio. This sounds like a genuinely useful tool that I would personally want to use myself.
  - jfrbfbreudh 2mo ago
    Done. Enjoy!
cr1895 2mo ago
Wild. In Netherlands (and I assume other European countries as well) there’s a regulatory norm for how spaces should be measured - what counts as liveable, non-liveable, etc. It’s so much fairer and clearer for everyone involved. https://www.nen.nl/bouw/beheer-en-onderhoud/oppervlaktebepaling https://www.nen.nl/bouw/beheer-en-onderhoud/oppervlaktebepal...
- 9dev 2mo ago
  Right? Germany too. I wouldn’t even have thought this could be a problem…
  - ExoticPearTree 2mo ago
    In some countries, like a poster mentioned, they include the “built” size, not the actual liveable size. Sometimes the balconies are included in that, and it is misleading. Two bedrooms in 900sqf liveable is one thing vs 3 bedrooms in 900sqf built area including balconies.
    - rsynnott 2mo ago
      ... Huh. This actually explains something I'd been confused about before; people on this site claiming that a 1000sqft apartment was small. Which, I suppose, if you include the entire footprint of the apartment including balconies, sure. It would never have occurred to me to do it like that.
  - cr1895 2mo ago
    Maybe it’s different for rentals but you’d think the banks would also want accurate data on the properties they’re mortgaging…and cities for tax revenue…so strange!
    - pandaman 2mo ago
      Why? Banks and cities only care about the price. They also want price to be under and over estimated respectively, neither would want the accurate price, even less so the accurate area.
bpicolo 2mo ago
They also often include external square footage like balconies which warp it.
59percentmore 2mo ago
Louis Rossmann has a number of videos from the period when he was searching for retail space in Manhattan. He would take a laser measure and verify listing info himself. The sf on listings was almost universally not just wrong, but audaciously wrong. "Whatcha gonna do about it?" wrong.

luckman212 3mo ago

Don't forget about those common areas too! I've seen many cases where hallways, elevators, and stairwells were included in the square footage numbers.

JoshTriplett 2mo ago
The normal definition of square footage I've seen typically includes hallways and stairs. (Though often not garages.) Personally, I wish we would normalize including exact floor plans with measurements.
- hirsin 2mo ago
  They mean the apartment building hallways and elevators. As in, if you summed the square footage of all the apartments on a floor, you'd get a number greater than the actual dimensions of the floor, because the common areas are counted multiple times.
  - hirako2000 2mo ago
    Could include the size of the pavements fronting the building and the basement with those trash bin also are shared space.
  - close04 2mo ago
    That shouldn’t be the case. In some cases it would also be ridiculous, when the common areas are larger than the apartments themselves (corridors, elevators, technical rooms, etc.). They do include the proportional square footage corresponding to each apartment. But this is still very misleading because some buildings have a lot of common areas that can double the advertised size of the very small apartments.
  - JoshTriplett 2mo ago
    Oh, I see. Yeah, that's false advertising. "Square footage" of a dwelling should only include your own private space, not any common areas.

jfrbfbreudh 2mo ago

I didn’t know the square footage of my apartment until I had built an app that utilizes LiDAR to actually measure it. Broker told me 650 square feet - it’s precisely 505 square feet. (Won’t advertise my app, but you can find many on the iOS App Store). Would be nice for StreetEasy to have some kind of third party verification about apartment size claims.

kirubakaran 2mo ago
Do mention your app! HN only frowns upon astroturfing. If you disclose that it is your app, then it's fine to link to it.
filoleg 2mo ago
If you are hesitant to mention it in the comments, please consider at least putting it in your profile bio. This sounds like a genuinely useful tool that I would personally want to use myself.
- jfrbfbreudh 2mo ago
  Done. Enjoy!

cr1895 2mo ago

Wild. In Netherlands (and I assume other European countries as well) there’s a regulatory norm for how spaces should be measured - what counts as liveable, non-liveable, etc. It’s so much fairer and clearer for everyone involved. https://www.nen.nl/bouw/beheer-en-onderhoud/oppervlaktebepaling https://www.nen.nl/bouw/beheer-en-onderhoud/oppervlaktebepal...

9dev 2mo ago
Right? Germany too. I wouldn’t even have thought this could be a problem…
- ExoticPearTree 2mo ago
  In some countries, like a poster mentioned, they include the “built” size, not the actual liveable size. Sometimes the balconies are included in that, and it is misleading. Two bedrooms in 900sqf liveable is one thing vs 3 bedrooms in 900sqf built area including balconies.
  - rsynnott 2mo ago
    ... Huh. This actually explains something I'd been confused about before; people on this site claiming that a 1000sqft apartment was small. Which, I suppose, if you include the entire footprint of the apartment including balconies, sure. It would never have occurred to me to do it like that.
- cr1895 2mo ago
  Maybe it’s different for rentals but you’d think the banks would also want accurate data on the properties they’re mortgaging…and cities for tax revenue…so strange!
  - pandaman 2mo ago
    Why? Banks and cities only care about the price. They also want price to be under and over estimated respectively, neither would want the accurate price, even less so the accurate area.

bpicolo 2mo ago

They also often include external square footage like balconies which warp it.

59percentmore 2mo ago

Louis Rossmann has a number of videos from the period when he was searching for retail space in Manhattan. He would take a laser measure and verify listing info himself. The sf on listings was almost universally not just wrong, but audaciously wrong. "Whatcha gonna do about it?" wrong.