3 ms·

they didn't pay yet, because court challenged settlement as inadequate. > I doubt the Chinese models operate under similar licensing agreements. US corps like

they didn't pay yet, because court challenged settlement as inadequate. > I doubt the Chinese models operate under similar licensing agreements. US corps likely pay licenses when afraid to be sued, or have troubles getting that data, otherwise they just take data, which was demonstrated many times. The same apply to Chinese corps, alibaba totally can be sued in US.

tristanj 3mo ago
China is infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law. Even when it is completely obvious that Chinese labs are training models on pirated data, US copyright holders face a virtually impossible task of proving it in court. Those lawsuits won't go anywhere.
- andriy_koval 3mo ago
  There are tons of lawsuites which resulted in banning Chinese companies from doing business in US, those lawsuits totally have consequences.
  - no-name-here 3mo ago
    What are the most high-profile examples of the "tons" of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.? Isn’t it usually more action by the government - executive orders, etc?
    - andriy_koval 3mo ago
      Here is example: https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chinese-walkie-talkie-maker-hytera-appeal-against-us-global-sales-ban-sanctions-seen-harsher-action https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chines... I believe mechanics is following: US corp sues Chinese, asks for preliminary injunction to stop selling product for example if there is strong evidence some IP for example was stolen etc. Then they litigate, and settle somehow.
      - no-name-here 3mo ago
        That 2024 article says "US sanctions" in the first sentence, but it's paywalled, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States first mentions a 2019 US law that first partially banned them, with the US government subsequently expanding it to a general US ban. After the initial ban it appears Hytera was involved in a suit with Motorola and got a worldwide(!?) ban as a result of it in 2024, but the ban was lifted on appeal after 2 weeks (just after the SCMP article). So it appears Hytera was first banned by US law, then got a 2-week worldwide ban from a US suit. (I'm just relying on the linked sources and have no personal knowledge of all of this.)
        andriy_koval 3mo ago
        Sure, there is litigation, criminal case, appeals, fines ($500M: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hytera-continues-to-use-stolen-trade-secrets.html https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hy...). The point is if violation is clear, US corps have a chance to go after Chinese corps.
        no-name-here 3mo ago
        >> There are tons of lawsuites which resulted in banning Chinese companies from doing business in US > What are the most high-profile examples of the "tons" of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.? Isn’t it usually more action by the government - executive orders, etc? In response to "What are the most high-profile examples of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.", the one example given was from 2 years ago of a ban that lasted for 2 weeks (separate from its 2019 onward government bans)? However, if the claim is that companies (including Chinese) can face significant fines from IP lawsuits, I agree.
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
- Planktonne 3mo ago
  The US is currently infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law when it comes to AI companies.

tristanj 3mo ago

China is infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law. Even when it is completely obvious that Chinese labs are training models on pirated data, US copyright holders face a virtually impossible task of proving it in court. Those lawsuits won't go anywhere.

andriy_koval 3mo ago
There are tons of lawsuites which resulted in banning Chinese companies from doing business in US, those lawsuits totally have consequences.
- no-name-here 3mo ago
  What are the most high-profile examples of the "tons" of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.? Isn’t it usually more action by the government - executive orders, etc?
  - andriy_koval 3mo ago
    Here is example: https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chinese-walkie-talkie-maker-hytera-appeal-against-us-global-sales-ban-sanctions-seen-harsher-action https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chines... I believe mechanics is following: US corp sues Chinese, asks for preliminary injunction to stop selling product for example if there is strong evidence some IP for example was stolen etc. Then they litigate, and settle somehow.
    - no-name-here 3mo ago
      That 2024 article says "US sanctions" in the first sentence, but it's paywalled, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States first mentions a 2019 US law that first partially banned them, with the US government subsequently expanding it to a general US ban. After the initial ban it appears Hytera was involved in a suit with Motorola and got a worldwide(!?) ban as a result of it in 2024, but the ban was lifted on appeal after 2 weeks (just after the SCMP article). So it appears Hytera was first banned by US law, then got a 2-week worldwide ban from a US suit. (I'm just relying on the linked sources and have no personal knowledge of all of this.)
      - andriy_koval 3mo ago
        Sure, there is litigation, criminal case, appeals, fines ($500M: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hytera-continues-to-use-stolen-trade-secrets.html https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hy...). The point is if violation is clear, US corps have a chance to go after Chinese corps.
        no-name-here 3mo ago
        >> There are tons of lawsuites which resulted in banning Chinese companies from doing business in US > What are the most high-profile examples of the "tons" of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.? Isn’t it usually more action by the government - executive orders, etc? In response to "What are the most high-profile examples of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.", the one example given was from 2 years ago of a ban that lasted for 2 weeks (separate from its 2019 onward government bans)? However, if the claim is that companies (including Chinese) can face significant fines from IP lawsuits, I agree.
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
Planktonne 3mo ago
The US is currently infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law when it comes to AI companies.