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That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions
by tristanj 3mo ago
That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements.
Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on.
Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt the Chinese models operate under similar licensing agreements.
- maximus_01 3mo agoLet’s not forget that Anthropic only paid that to settle a class action lawsuit.
- andriy_koval 3mo agothey didn't pay yet, because court challenged settlement as inadequate. > I doubt the Chinese models operate under similar licensing agreements. US corps likely pay licenses when afraid to be sued, or have troubles getting that data, otherwise they just take data, which was demonstrated many times. The same apply to Chinese corps, alibaba totally can be sued in US.
- tristanj 3mo agoChina is infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law. Even when it is completely obvious that Chinese labs are training models on pirated data, US copyright holders face a virtually impossible task of proving it in court. Those lawsuits won't go anywhere.
- andriy_koval 3mo agoThere are tons of lawsuites which resulted in banning Chinese companies from doing business in US, those lawsuits totally have consequences.
- no-name-here 3mo agoWhat are the most high-profile examples of the "tons" of lawsuits resulting in Chinese companies being banned from doing business in the U.S.? Isn’t it usually more action by the government - executive orders, etc?
- andriy_koval 3mo agoHere is example: https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chinese-walkie-talkie-maker-hytera-appeal-against-us-global-sales-ban-sanctions-seen-harsher-action https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3258239/chines... I believe mechanics is following: US corp sues Chinese, asks for preliminary injunction to stop selling product for example if there is strong evidence some IP for example was stolen etc. Then they litigate, and settle somehow.
- no-name-here 3mo agoThat 2024 article says "US sanctions" in the first sentence, but it's paywalled, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hytera#United_States first mentions a 2019 US law that first partially banned them, with the US government subsequently expanding it to a general US ban. After the initial ban it appears Hytera was involved in a suit with Motorola and got a worldwide(!?) ban as a result of it in 2024, but the ban was lifted on appeal after 2 weeks (just after the SCMP article). So it appears Hytera was first banned by US law, then got a 2-week worldwide ban from a US suit. (I'm just relying on the linked sources and have no personal knowledge of all of this.)
- andriy_koval 3mo agoSure, there is litigation, criminal case, appeals, fines ($500M: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hytera-continues-to-use-stolen-trade-secrets.html https://www.motorolasolutions.com/newsroom/press-releases/hy...). The point is if violation is clear, US corps have a chance to go after Chinese corps.
- Planktonne 3mo agoThe US is currently infamous for weakly enforcing copyright law when it comes to AI companies.
- ForHackernews 3mo agoAfter the fact. They did the same thing Youtube, Uber and Airbnb did: Break the law, eventually get caught, cut some deal where they pay a pittance and keep doing the same thing but now with leverage on their side.
- orangecat 3mo agoAnthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. The payment was for illegally downloading copyrighted material, not training. Training was explicitly ruled to be fair use.
- tristanj 3mo agoPartially correct. The court explicitly ruled that training on pirated data, which is what Anthropic was doing, is not considered fair use. Training on legally acquired / licensed data is potentially fair use.
- 3836293648 3mo agoIt's not potentially, it's settled. At least for now as neither case wanted to move on to appeals
- tristanj 3mo agoNot at all. The ruling came from a federal district court, and since it was settled early, it was never reviewed by a higher court. It doesn't set a national precedent across the U.S. And other district courts don't agree on this. The US district court for Delaware recently rejected a fair use defense for the use of copyrighted works to train AI. https://www.reedsmith.com/articles/court-ai-fair-use-thomson-reuters-enterprise-gmbh-ross-intelligence/ https://www.reedsmith.com/articles/court-ai-fair-use-thomson... There are more cases in the pipeline. The massive NYT vs OpenAI is still ongoing. Nothing will be "settled" until this makes its way to the Supreme Court or Congress steps in.
- ttoinou 3mo agoBecause they got caught there is much less intellectual property in China so it’s not ‘theft’ (as you can’t put property on information)
- polotics 3mo agoreally!? nobody paid me anything for my comments on HN.
- eichin 3mo agoThe only ones getting paid this time around had registered copyrights (in the US at that.)
- codedokode 3mo agoThey only paid when they got caught. And not to everyone.
- tristanj 3mo agoBut they still paid. I don't see any Chinese labs paying billion dollar infringement settlements. Chinese labs can freely train on pirated material, which is a structural advantage.
- beambot 3mo agoThey settled with a subset of copyright holders. Guarantee they violated lots of others' rights in the process
- idiotsecant 3mo agoThat's like saying someone is a big proponent of community law and order, and they donated $1000 to the county sheriff when actually they got caught drunk speeding in a school zone.
- tristanj 3mo agoA false equivalence. A more correct example is: Anthropic was speeding, got caught by the county sheriff, and paid the fine. Anthropic stopped speeding. Meanwhile, Chinese labs are speeding in a different county. Everyone knows they are speeding, yet the sheriff won't pull them over, so they just keep doing it. This lax enforcement gives Chinese labs a structural advantage over American ones.
- r-w 3mo ago> Anthropic stopped speeding. Do you purport to know for a fact that they're no longer training on the data they'd pirated? Because I highly doubt that.
- tristanj 3mo agoAnthropic deleted the pirated training data as part of the settlement https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2025/09/anthropics-landmark-copyright-settlement-implications-for-ai-developers-and-enterprise-users https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2025/09/anthrop... Destruction of Materials: In addition to the monetary compensation, Anthropic has agreed to destroy the two libraries that allegedly contain the pirated works, as well as any derivative copies originating from those sources. Anthropic must certify in writing to class counsel that the destruction has been completed and that the allegedly infringing materials are permanently removed from its systems. The libraries in question were Library Genesis (LibGen) and Pirate Library Mirror (PiLiMi). If Anthropic is somehow training models on deleted data, I'd be quite impressed.
- yogthos 3mo agoThey used two of my books and I'm still waiting for my cheque here.
- vitally3643 3mo agoCompensation is not license