5 ms·
It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries
by jaapz 3mo ago
It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries
- nikisweeting 3mo agoand the US famously never subsidizes any of its industries...
- gruez 3mo agoWhich industries are the US leading in because of subsidies?
- greyb 3mo agoIf a country hands out enormous subsidies but yet isn't leading in anything, then maybe it's time to consider what structural reasons are causing these subsidies to be squandered and whose bottom lines are being padded.
- sarchertech 3mo agoWhat US industries get anywhere near Chinese level subsidies.
- baby 3mo agoI heard that when some country wants to pay in a different currency than USD for oil, a coup suddenly happens, or a helicopter comes and the president gets kidnapped
- sarchertech 3mo agoThe US dollar being the global reserve currency makes exports more expensive though.
- inigyou 3mo agoIt basically means most of the world's currency wealth is held in the USA or backed by the USA. So the answer would be the finance sector - it's subsidized by the rest of the world.
- sarchertech 3mo agoThat’s a stretch for the topic at hand. You can say hey the US does this probably morally equivalent thing, but when people are talking about subsidizing domestic companies so they can outcompete foreign companies in foreign markets, this isn’t what they’re talking about.
- inigyou 3mo agoAgriculture?
- sarchertech 3mo agoChina spends close to 10x what the US does on agriculture subsidies.
- baby 3mo agoEVs, mobile phones, are two massive industries where Chinese competitors are not only way ahead, but also basically banned.
- nick238 3mo agoOil, natural gas, corn (for fuel), soybeans (for cattle feed)
- bruce511 3mo agoArms, weapons, fighter jets and so on. The US sounds a trillion $ a year subsidizing the military industrial complex. The US chose their market (arms). The Chinese chose consumer goods. Go figure.
- mstachowiak 3mo agoSadly, consumer goods are the new arms (drones, batteries, etc)
- tadfisher 3mo agoBasically every "made in USA" consumer product has a DOD contract. The DOD is mandated by law to purchase from US companies, so there is a huge sector of small-to-medium businesses which only exist because there is a guaranteed order coming every quarter for uniforms or boots or other equipment that would likely be 1/3 the price if they were contract-manufactured in China or Vietnam. Not saying this is uniformly bad, because without the law the number of businesses with the ability to manufacture this stuff would trend toward zero, but it is a form of subsidy.
- throwaway2037 3mo agoI wonder if this pattern is true for all militaries in rich countries. I think it sounds like good economic policy. If you want to grow your military, then you need to make sure it is spent domestically. Also, the "finish good" may include lots of parts that were built overseas. Think about a Tomohawk missile: I am sure the microchips are all made overseas. That said, the intellectual property is developed domestically (or with very close allies) and final assembly is done domestically.
- sarchertech 3mo agoUS Arms exports bring in around $13 billion a year. The military industrial complex is a domestic jobs program that sells the vast majority of what it makes domestically. The US is clearly not spending a trillion dollars a year subsidizing defense in order to make their products more competitive in other markets. https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/arms_exports/ https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/arms_exports/
- t0mpr1c3 3mo agoEver wondered why everything in the USA contains corn syrup? Because sugar is artificially expensive (roughly double the global price) due to import tariffs that protect US sugar cane farmers.
- creato 3mo ago> Between 2005 and 2024, Chinese firms received on average three to eight times more subsidies than competitors in OECD economies. https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-hit-usd-108-billion-and-reshape-global-competition.html https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-h...
- baby 3mo agoI can't read this seriously while being unable to buy any Chinese EVs here in the US.
- tptacek 3mo agoYou can't buy Chinese EVs in the US because China is overtly running a dumping campaign for them. It's an interesting story, read up on it!
- awesome_dude 3mo agoWait - what? You cannot buy them because they are dumping them??????
- tptacek 3mo ago"Dumping" is a term of art in international trade. It's the thing that happens when a foreign exporter sells goods in your country below their production cost (or far below what they're charging domestic customers). It's done to fuck up the foreign markets for those goods, or, in China's case, as a relief valve for malinvestment. China drastically overfunds EV production. There's a whole weird story where provinces apparently competed to get slices of the EV production business, which resulted in a large number of competing firms, producing far more vehicles than the Chinese domestic market could consume. This isn't just a US thing. Europe tariffs the heck out of these cars.
- awesome_dude 3mo ago
- g8oz 3mo agoSuccessful Chinese industries tend to be subsidized at the level of cities and regions. This creates fierce intra national rivalry that forces rapid evolution and excellence. Electric vehicles are an example. Anything the federal government pumps money into tends not to do as well.
- lostlogin 3mo agoSo ridiculous. So a bit of subsidy is ok, but no more than the US does? As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries, my sympathy is zero.
- throwaway2037 3mo ago> As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries What country and what industries? I am curious. Do you think that you own country does not do the same to others?
- lostlogin 3mo ago> What country and what industries? New Zealand. Meat exports and dairy.
- throwaway2037 3mo agoI would assume that China is your biggest trade partner for both of those categories. Is the US a major trade partner for either of those categories? I find it hard to believe. The US (and most rich countries) have way too much domestic dairy farm capacity. As a result, there is lots of govt subsidies paid to dairy farmers.
- lostlogin 3mo agoThe US is our largest market for meat exports. Our top dairy markets are all in Asia, China being too. https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/meat-exports-reach-10-billion-in-the-year-ended-october-2025/ https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/meat-exports-reach-10-billion... https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/growth-in-export-markets-for-new-zealand-milk-powder/ https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/growth-in-export-markets-for-...
- antod 3mo ago> The US (and most rich countries) have way too much domestic dairy farm capacity. As a result, there is lots of govt subsidies paid to dairy farmers. I think you might have cause and effect switched around.
- fireflash38 3mo agoDoes it matter? When has capitalism cared about fair or free
- tejtm 3mo agoIt is not as though other countries could not choose do the same. It seem to me that China choosing to subsidize industry it is not so different than the US choosing to subsidize Roads, Autos and OIL. In both cases it does seem to work splendidly as intended. Other than political inertia (or economic reasons far beyond my ability to fathom) there is nothing to stop the US from following suit. I accept "free market" is a term of art probably from before global trade reality and could be narrowly redefined to mean whatever one wants (or wanted when it was coined) but in my ignorance I see it simply as free to choose actions and responses. But I am far far away from opinions I am qualified to hold, think I will shut up now.
- lyu07282 3mo agoI think the overwhelming and undeniable success and prosperity of China is the biggest concern to the west, the neoliberals consistently predicted their immediate downfall that never came. Except we are all still led by the same neoliberals proven wrong about everything, the contradictions everywhere are driving us all into collective insanity. If we don't manage to purge our media and governments from these vile people the only path forward is collective decline, increased totalitarianism and our repression leading to a war with China. Wars don't always end in the right side winning, and the cold war was won by the wrong side.
- tejtm 3mo agoThanks, not to disagree but it may be best to use plain language as I do not know what a neoliberal is to me never mind what it means to you. I do know liberal is used as a derisive term by the people we (US) are being led by which leads me to cognitive dissonance parsing your statement.
- justinclift 3mo ago> the neoliberals consistently predicted their immediate downfall that never came. That doesn't seem correct. Wasn't the predication that once China started to become successful they'd open up and become more democratic? Which clearly didn't happen, as per the outright slaughter of the Chinese university students who were protesting in 1989: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...
- tchalla 3mo agoEvery country including the US does that.
- FpUser 3mo agoOr when one country can print endless money while threatening the rest of the world with all kinds of punishment if they stop using it as a reserve currency. Stop crying already. US subsidizes a boatload of things.
- watwut 3mo agoThis particular complaint is tripple hypocritical. US whole deal is to sell under price until competition dies and only then bring up prices or remove offering. It winner takes all econony is literally based on destroying the competition as such.
- t0mpr1c3 3mo agoIgnoring foreign patents also played a big part in US industrialization.
- nicbou 3mo agoIt's not much more of a free market when giant corporations do.
- layla5alive 3mo agoWhen Uber does it: good. When China does it: bad.
- oneshtein 3mo agoWhen we do it: it fine. When they do it: it's bad!