4 ms·

How is it possible for these nutbars to get influential positions overseeing the very field they are nutty in? There are a bunch of US examples as well, so I'm

by pi18n 14y ago

How is it possible for these nutbars to get influential positions overseeing the very field they are nutty in? There are a bunch of US examples as well, so I'm assuming it's a global phenomenon. It doesn't make any sense, and honestly there should be a process to prevent people who believe in magic from informing policy.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
lutusp 14y ago
> there should be a process to prevent people who believe in magic from informing policy. That would require the abandonment of religion. Good luck with that plan.
riffraff 14y ago
you are assuming people get put into a position overseeing X because they are competent in X, which is, most likely, a factor with minimal influence in the complex equation that determines who does what. I mean, by definition someone who's specialization is "being a politician" can't have it as "being an expert of medicine & healthcare".
- Skepticat_UK 14y ago
  I agree with your first sentence but I don't think your second sentence holds up; people who become politicians are often experts in fields, medicine and healthcare among them. Hunt's own background, of course, is about as far away from medicine as it could be. If he has expertise in anything, it's in business management. In the eyes of a Tory government intent on dismantling our National Health Service and replacing it with a business model of healthcare provision, he would seem to have the perfect background.
  - riffraff 14y ago
    I am not excluding that there may be people who have knowledge of X in politics. Even the Dear Leader Berlusconi has a law degree. But it seems self evident to me that people skills, leadership, charisma, street smarts, good looks etc are more determining factors in a politician's career, than any knowledge of a field like education, healthcare etc. So, a good politician with zero knowledge >> a bad politician with great expertise. For a trivial example, just check the careers of the latest "Secretary of State for Health" of the UK, I quote wikipedia: Jeremy Hunt: After university Hunt worked for a short period of time as a management consultant, and then decided to pursue life as an English language teacher in Japan. Andre Lansley: Before entering politics, Lansley had "a promising career in the civil service". Lansley worked for Norman Tebbit for three years as his private secretary at the Department of Trade and Industry. Andrew Murray Burnham: He joined the Labour Party aged 14 in 1984, during the miners' strike, and was a researcher to Tessa Jowell from 1994 until the 1997 election. He joined the Transport and General Workers' Union in 1995. After the 1997 election, he was briefly a Parliamentary Officer for the NHS Confederation from August to December 1997, before taking up the post as an administrator with the Football Task Force for a year. Alan Johnson: [he] stacked shelves at Tesco before becoming a postman at 18. He was interested in music and joined two pop music bands. Johnson joined the Union of Communication Workers, becoming a branch official. He joined the Labour Party in 1971[..]A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the union in 1992. I don't want go on, but trust me, I did not stop because the next in line knew something of healthcare.
dmix 14y ago
"The Iron Law of Bureaucracy" The administrators are the ones who get power in government, not those who are dedicated to the goals of the field. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

by pi18n 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

lutusp 14y ago

> there should be a process to prevent people who believe in magic from informing policy. That would require the abandonment of religion. Good luck with that plan.

riffraff 14y ago

you are assuming people get put into a position overseeing X because they are competent in X, which is, most likely, a factor with minimal influence in the complex equation that determines who does what. I mean, by definition someone who's specialization is "being a politician" can't have it as "being an expert of medicine & healthcare".

Skepticat_UK 14y ago
I agree with your first sentence but I don't think your second sentence holds up; people who become politicians are often experts in fields, medicine and healthcare among them. Hunt's own background, of course, is about as far away from medicine as it could be. If he has expertise in anything, it's in business management. In the eyes of a Tory government intent on dismantling our National Health Service and replacing it with a business model of healthcare provision, he would seem to have the perfect background.
- riffraff 14y ago
  I am not excluding that there may be people who have knowledge of X in politics. Even the Dear Leader Berlusconi has a law degree. But it seems self evident to me that people skills, leadership, charisma, street smarts, good looks etc are more determining factors in a politician's career, than any knowledge of a field like education, healthcare etc. So, a good politician with zero knowledge >> a bad politician with great expertise. For a trivial example, just check the careers of the latest "Secretary of State for Health" of the UK, I quote wikipedia: Jeremy Hunt: After university Hunt worked for a short period of time as a management consultant, and then decided to pursue life as an English language teacher in Japan. Andre Lansley: Before entering politics, Lansley had "a promising career in the civil service". Lansley worked for Norman Tebbit for three years as his private secretary at the Department of Trade and Industry. Andrew Murray Burnham: He joined the Labour Party aged 14 in 1984, during the miners' strike, and was a researcher to Tessa Jowell from 1994 until the 1997 election. He joined the Transport and General Workers' Union in 1995. After the 1997 election, he was briefly a Parliamentary Officer for the NHS Confederation from August to December 1997, before taking up the post as an administrator with the Football Task Force for a year. Alan Johnson: [he] stacked shelves at Tesco before becoming a postman at 18. He was interested in music and joined two pop music bands. Johnson joined the Union of Communication Workers, becoming a branch official. He joined the Labour Party in 1971[..]A full-time union official from 1987, he became General Secretary of the union in 1992. I don't want go on, but trust me, I did not stop because the next in line knew something of healthcare.

dmix 14y ago

"The Iron Law of Bureaucracy" The administrators are the ones who get power in government, not those who are dedicated to the goals of the field. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html