3 ms·

> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. Where and ho

by bmitc 3mo ago

> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. Where and how is that determined? I.e., any references to back that up? And you can't in one breath say they have the best healthcare but then say their employees' reports of their experience are unreliable.

nojito 3mo ago
Not sure if you’re serious but just search the name Kaiser in any research search engine. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ Their secret sauce is their ability to standardize protocols throughout their entire organization.
- lostlogin 3mo ago
  That’s the measure for one pathology, but in terms of a provider comparison, what’s the measure? It isn’t dollars versus life span or morbidity.
- guelo 3mo ago
  Study is from 2000-2013, their care has deteriorated significantly since then. I know because I've been a patient the whole time.
  - sgarman 3mo ago
    I agree. The last 5 years especially.
  - nojito 3mo ago
    Their quality metrics have increased steadily over the last 10 years https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pages/quality-safety/measuring-quality https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pag... There’s no best healthcare for everyone but that doesn’t change the fact that Kaiser is objectively one of the best.
- ak217 3mo ago
  Well then their protocols suck. I have many anecdotal data points about them fumbling in major ways when it matters (missed major pathologies, messed up surgeries, etc.). If you have a choice of hospital networks, research carefully. Kaiser might be fine for many people's needs, it's not fine when it comes to intensive care.
  - nojito 3mo ago
    Correct. There’s no uniform healthcare solution that works for everyone. But it doesn’t change the fact their protocols are top notch as reflected by their quality metrics.
- bmitc 3mo ago
  Why wouldn't I be serious? And everyone lives in and cares about California. Plus, a quick Wikipedia glance shows they have a fair share of controversies, including major fines due to poor COVID protocol adherence.
kulahan 3mo ago
The care quality of all major healthcare providers in the US is some pretty available data, and I've never heard anyone of being suspicious of Kaiser, of all companies. They're specifically known for having really good outcomes. It's like asking for a source that McDonald's sells the most burgers in America. It might not be true - maybe technically it's someone selling sliders or whatever, but it's so close it's probably not worth arguing over anyways.
BeetleB 3mo ago
Customer satisfaction in California is not great. In the Northwest (Oregon + Washington), it's pretty high. Not sure about other locations (Hawaii, etc). But again: Customer satisfaction doesn't mean best outcomes...

by bmitc 3mo ago

nojito 3mo ago

Not sure if you’re serious but just search the name Kaiser in any research search engine. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8032167/ Their secret sauce is their ability to standardize protocols throughout their entire organization.

lostlogin 3mo ago
That’s the measure for one pathology, but in terms of a provider comparison, what’s the measure? It isn’t dollars versus life span or morbidity.
guelo 3mo ago
Study is from 2000-2013, their care has deteriorated significantly since then. I know because I've been a patient the whole time.
- sgarman 3mo ago
  I agree. The last 5 years especially.
- nojito 3mo ago
  Their quality metrics have increased steadily over the last 10 years https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pages/quality-safety/measuring-quality https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/northern-california/pag... There’s no best healthcare for everyone but that doesn’t change the fact that Kaiser is objectively one of the best.
ak217 3mo ago
Well then their protocols suck. I have many anecdotal data points about them fumbling in major ways when it matters (missed major pathologies, messed up surgeries, etc.). If you have a choice of hospital networks, research carefully. Kaiser might be fine for many people's needs, it's not fine when it comes to intensive care.
- nojito 3mo ago
  Correct. There’s no uniform healthcare solution that works for everyone. But it doesn’t change the fact their protocols are top notch as reflected by their quality metrics.
bmitc 3mo ago
Why wouldn't I be serious? And everyone lives in and cares about California. Plus, a quick Wikipedia glance shows they have a fair share of controversies, including major fines due to poor COVID protocol adherence.

kulahan 3mo ago

The care quality of all major healthcare providers in the US is some pretty available data, and I've never heard anyone of being suspicious of Kaiser, of all companies. They're specifically known for having really good outcomes. It's like asking for a source that McDonald's sells the most burgers in America. It might not be true - maybe technically it's someone selling sliders or whatever, but it's so close it's probably not worth arguing over anyways.

BeetleB 3mo ago

Customer satisfaction in California is not great. In the Northwest (Oregon + Washington), it's pretty high. Not sure about other locations (Hawaii, etc). But again: Customer satisfaction doesn't mean best outcomes...