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"Mainstream" medicine has almost certainly killed vastly more people than will ever be killed by homeopathy. The difference, of course, is that it has also kep

"Mainstream" medicine has almost certainly killed vastly more people than will ever be killed by homeopathy. The difference, of course, is that it has also kept countless people alive (to say nothing of improving quality of life for others). Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive.

silvestrov 14y ago
"Mainstream" medicine has certainly saved vastly more people than will ever be saved by homeopathy.
glesica 14y ago
There is also the problem of absolute versus relative numbers. Even discounting the number of people saved, mainstream medicine has possibly still killed more. But it has also been used on more people, hence the "mainstream" designation.
wissler 14y ago
Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. I'm sure there are cases where it did, e.g. by virtue of offering something benign in place of something in the mainstream that might have killed. People are comforted by the thought that modern medicine has completely transcended the barbarity of its own past, but doctors are humans and, on average, are subject to the same kinds of irrationality as everyone else is, and if you're unlucky enough to have to get up close to modern medicine and if you pay attention, you'll see the barbarism very clearly.
- rmc 14y ago
  I'm sure there are cases where it did, e.g. by virtue of offering something benign in place of something in the mainstream that might have killed. When homeopathy was invented about 150 years ago, it was actually safer than real medicine, but that's because real medicine was quite dangerous, and homeopathy wasn't actually any treatment, so the "doing nothing" approach (homeopathy) was safer than the current real medicine. However real medicine has gotten a lot better.
  - wissler 14y ago
    However real medicine has gotten a lot better. It hasn't gotten better enough. Homeopathy is, in a certain sense, propaganda for modern medicine, because instead of people contrasting modern medicine with what it could and should be, they compare it to something that's obviously worse, and then they feel pleased with themselves for being so smart and become complacent about further improving modern medicine.
    - rmc 14y ago
      It hasn't gotten better enough Yes, medicine is not finished yet (we haven't cured death yet). However medicine hasn't stopped yet and keeps researching. And medicine is waaaay better than it was 50, 100 or 150 years ago.
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "It hasn't gotten better enough. Homeopathy is, in a certain sense, propaganda for modern medicine" Except that it's not, because its adherents demand revolution, not reform.
- btilly 14y ago
  I'm married to a doctor. I could not agree with this comment more. If you're sick, modern medicine is far and away your best hope. It is not kind. It is not wise. It does not maintain the standards that practitioners would like us to believe. Nor are those practitioners as knowledgeable and wise as they would like us (and themselves) to believe. It is still your best hope. Flaws and all, you should depend on it for your life.
  - edanm 14y ago
    In short, "It sucks, but it's the best there is right now". This actually pertains to an awful lot of things in the modern world (democracy, for example). It's good to remember both sides of that sentence - if you're sick, seek modern medicine. But if you're a scientist/politician/practitioner, remember that there's a lot left to improve.
  - wissler 14y ago
    You can do a bit better than just trusting it by educating yourself and seeking second or third opinions on treatment. Medicine isn't a special case, it's just part of the human condition that we haven't fully crossed the threshold from acting like apes to acting like truly civilized people. What makes this worse is when people get all proud of how much we have accomplished, without recognizing how far we yet must go.
  - yason 14y ago
    Modern medicine basically works like this: you destructively remove the offending condition as down to the root cause as you can reason about, and then let the body heal itself and recover from the shock of the treatment. While this is great for many acute conditions, I can understand why people might want to choose something else first.
    - xtracto 14y ago
      Really spot on. Like, how the "cure" for a fissure in anno is to open another fissure on the side. I am sure in 50 years people will see such procedure as barbaric.
misnome 14y ago
> Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. I bet there are an awful lot of dehydration survivors that would disagree with you, there.
- lutusp 14y ago
  >> Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. > I bet there are an awful lot of dehydration survivors that would disagree with you, there. But those who survived dehydration didn't survive because of homeopathy, they survived because of the accompanying water. If an astrologer pulls someone out of a burning car, does that support the scientific standing of astrology?
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Ahhh, but what if the stars foretold the burning car and directed the astrologers attention to the right time and place? ;)
kamaal 14y ago
>>Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. Sorry but I call this 'Allophic Arrogance', Which basically results out of overzealous overconfidence in something. Hating something just because its old. Ancient systems of medicines work all the time. Despite your dislike. Around three years, back I had a serious mal absorption problem. In 8 months, I lost a straight 30 kgs. I was around 48 kgs and life was going no where. Allopathy doctors almost killed me, the only thing the ever did was trial and error. And if that didn't work send me through rounds and rounds of tests. Net result was burning a lot of money for no sight of cure. Then Ayurveda came to my rescue. Life has been a blessing since. My problem vanished like a whisper. In fact everything the Ayurvedic doctor has told me has come true to today's date. I know modern medicine has advanced stuff like vaccination and surgery. Which saves many lives. And we must be appreciative of that. But that doesn't mean, we need to belittle something else. Different things works for different people. And if it works for them, who are we to say otherwise?
- lutusp 14y ago
  > Different things works for different people. And if it works for them, who are we to say otherwise? The classic defense of astrology. Welcome to the world of science, of objective, dispassionate research. Welcome to modern times, where people compare their ideas to reality. You do remember reality, yes?
  - kamaal 14y ago
    Frankly speaking if an astrologer were to tell me to buy a lottery ticket with a number he tells me. And I get to become a millionaire, I wouldn't give a damn how, why should or why shouldn't astrology work(And I'm sure neither would you, nor anybody for that matter). I have those millions and that counts.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > Frankly speaking if an astrologer were to tell me to buy a lottery ticket with a number he tells me. And I get to become a millionaire, I wouldn't give a damn how, why should or why shouldn't astrology work ... You need to learn how science works, and recognize the value of healthy skepticism in particular. There are criminal scams that work just the way you describe, and people are sometimes dumb enough not to see through them. Here's an example of a well-known scam that works again and again among the ignorant -- it's the "Miracle Man" scam: http://arachnoid.com/randomness/index.html#Miracle_Man http://arachnoid.com/randomness/index.html#Miracle_Man > I have those millions and that counts. You need to learn how to think -- hopefully before you get an e-mail from Nigeria.

silvestrov 14y ago

"Mainstream" medicine has certainly saved vastly more people than will ever be saved by homeopathy.

glesica 14y ago

There is also the problem of absolute versus relative numbers. Even discounting the number of people saved, mainstream medicine has possibly still killed more. But it has also been used on more people, hence the "mainstream" designation.

wissler 14y ago

Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. I'm sure there are cases where it did, e.g. by virtue of offering something benign in place of something in the mainstream that might have killed. People are comforted by the thought that modern medicine has completely transcended the barbarity of its own past, but doctors are humans and, on average, are subject to the same kinds of irrationality as everyone else is, and if you're unlucky enough to have to get up close to modern medicine and if you pay attention, you'll see the barbarism very clearly.

rmc 14y ago
I'm sure there are cases where it did, e.g. by virtue of offering something benign in place of something in the mainstream that might have killed. When homeopathy was invented about 150 years ago, it was actually safer than real medicine, but that's because real medicine was quite dangerous, and homeopathy wasn't actually any treatment, so the "doing nothing" approach (homeopathy) was safer than the current real medicine. However real medicine has gotten a lot better.
- wissler 14y ago
  However real medicine has gotten a lot better. It hasn't gotten better enough. Homeopathy is, in a certain sense, propaganda for modern medicine, because instead of people contrasting modern medicine with what it could and should be, they compare it to something that's obviously worse, and then they feel pleased with themselves for being so smart and become complacent about further improving modern medicine.
  - rmc 14y ago
    It hasn't gotten better enough Yes, medicine is not finished yet (we haven't cured death yet). However medicine hasn't stopped yet and keeps researching. And medicine is waaaay better than it was 50, 100 or 150 years ago.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "It hasn't gotten better enough. Homeopathy is, in a certain sense, propaganda for modern medicine" Except that it's not, because its adherents demand revolution, not reform.
btilly 14y ago
I'm married to a doctor. I could not agree with this comment more. If you're sick, modern medicine is far and away your best hope. It is not kind. It is not wise. It does not maintain the standards that practitioners would like us to believe. Nor are those practitioners as knowledgeable and wise as they would like us (and themselves) to believe. It is still your best hope. Flaws and all, you should depend on it for your life.
- edanm 14y ago
  In short, "It sucks, but it's the best there is right now". This actually pertains to an awful lot of things in the modern world (democracy, for example). It's good to remember both sides of that sentence - if you're sick, seek modern medicine. But if you're a scientist/politician/practitioner, remember that there's a lot left to improve.
- wissler 14y ago
  You can do a bit better than just trusting it by educating yourself and seeking second or third opinions on treatment. Medicine isn't a special case, it's just part of the human condition that we haven't fully crossed the threshold from acting like apes to acting like truly civilized people. What makes this worse is when people get all proud of how much we have accomplished, without recognizing how far we yet must go.
- yason 14y ago
  Modern medicine basically works like this: you destructively remove the offending condition as down to the root cause as you can reason about, and then let the body heal itself and recover from the shock of the treatment. While this is great for many acute conditions, I can understand why people might want to choose something else first.
  - xtracto 14y ago
    Really spot on. Like, how the "cure" for a fissure in anno is to open another fissure on the side. I am sure in 50 years people will see such procedure as barbaric.

misnome 14y ago

> Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. I bet there are an awful lot of dehydration survivors that would disagree with you, there.

lutusp 14y ago
>> Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. > I bet there are an awful lot of dehydration survivors that would disagree with you, there. But those who survived dehydration didn't survive because of homeopathy, they survived because of the accompanying water. If an astrologer pulls someone out of a burning car, does that support the scientific standing of astrology?
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Ahhh, but what if the stars foretold the burning car and directed the astrologers attention to the right time and place? ;)

kamaal 14y ago

>>Homeopathy has never kept anyone alive. Sorry but I call this 'Allophic Arrogance', Which basically results out of overzealous overconfidence in something. Hating something just because its old. Ancient systems of medicines work all the time. Despite your dislike. Around three years, back I had a serious mal absorption problem. In 8 months, I lost a straight 30 kgs. I was around 48 kgs and life was going no where. Allopathy doctors almost killed me, the only thing the ever did was trial and error. And if that didn't work send me through rounds and rounds of tests. Net result was burning a lot of money for no sight of cure. Then Ayurveda came to my rescue. Life has been a blessing since. My problem vanished like a whisper. In fact everything the Ayurvedic doctor has told me has come true to today's date. I know modern medicine has advanced stuff like vaccination and surgery. Which saves many lives. And we must be appreciative of that. But that doesn't mean, we need to belittle something else. Different things works for different people. And if it works for them, who are we to say otherwise?

lutusp 14y ago
> Different things works for different people. And if it works for them, who are we to say otherwise? The classic defense of astrology. Welcome to the world of science, of objective, dispassionate research. Welcome to modern times, where people compare their ideas to reality. You do remember reality, yes?
- kamaal 14y ago
  Frankly speaking if an astrologer were to tell me to buy a lottery ticket with a number he tells me. And I get to become a millionaire, I wouldn't give a damn how, why should or why shouldn't astrology work(And I'm sure neither would you, nor anybody for that matter). I have those millions and that counts.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > Frankly speaking if an astrologer were to tell me to buy a lottery ticket with a number he tells me. And I get to become a millionaire, I wouldn't give a damn how, why should or why shouldn't astrology work ... You need to learn how science works, and recognize the value of healthy skepticism in particular. There are criminal scams that work just the way you describe, and people are sometimes dumb enough not to see through them. Here's an example of a well-known scam that works again and again among the ignorant -- it's the "Miracle Man" scam: http://arachnoid.com/randomness/index.html#Miracle_Man http://arachnoid.com/randomness/index.html#Miracle_Man > I have those millions and that counts. You need to learn how to think -- hopefully before you get an e-mail from Nigeria.