4 ms·

"if you are less than 40 and aren’t working at least 15-18 hours a day you are not working enough" I find this to be very bad advise. Nobody should work 18 hrs

"if you are less than 40 and aren’t working at least 15-18 hours a day you are not working enough" I find this to be very bad advise. Nobody should work 18 hrs every day.

npguy 14y ago
That is a really good point. I think the number was probably just mentioned to just show how important it is to work hard.
npguy 14y ago
But I do think that the point on tripling your effort towards the finishing line is a great piece of advice.
dscrd 14y ago
Calculating childcare and housekeeping into the equation, I'm probably doing about 15 hours per day. 18 hours per day would mean that you would get 6 hours absolute maximum of sleep per night, and anyone who does that for longer periods of time is an idiot comparable to a drug abuser.
- acuozzo 14y ago
  I get __severe__ headaches if I sleep for more than six hours per night. My physicians(s) have no explanation and, I assure you, I've seen several of them in an effort to address this. It's comforting to know that I'm "an idiot comparable to a drug abuser", however. Thanks.
  - sirclueless 14y ago
    Well, if it's actually a pathology, it's hardly idiocy. It's pretty moronic to swim in ice water, but if your motorboat sinks halfway across the English channel, you do your best to get back to shore.
  - keithpeter 14y ago
    Did your parents have a similar sleep profile? If you don't set an alarm and just sleep until you wake up 'naturally' do you sleep longer and get symptoms, or just wake up after 6 hours or so? Just interested. I tend to wake up 5 to 6 am most mornings without alarm.
  - mlvljr 14y ago
    Can't that be due to the lack of fresh air?
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Is there a possibility of an allergy at work?
  - dscrd 14y ago
    You weren't the intended recipient of my verbal abuse, and I think you know it :-| Do you work 18 hours a day?
nthj 14y ago
The danger for many (or most) people on Hacker News is not that they're going to slack off and only work 25-35 hours a week, but that they're going to work 60-80 hours a week on the wrong things. And sleep deprived people are really, really crippled at deciding what the wisest thing to work on is.
bcbrown 14y ago
What I have learned from individual athletic competition is that the person who wins is usually the person who is willing to sacrifice the most in order to win - free time, hobbies, family and social relationships, health. I think that's probably true for anything. This is only possible for something that is a deeply held passion. At the same time, by making an inviolable commitment to myself that I was going to enter a certain competition, and accepting as a given that I would be making certain sacrifices in my social and personal life from the training effort required, it made that commitment into something that I just did, without thinking about whether it was something I wanted to do at that moment. And removing that decision, that "do I really want to do this chore?", it's possible to have the consistency of effort necessary for performance at an elite level. So I think it's valuable advice, to say start small, attempt surmountable obstacles, and develop the habit of consistent practice. And I think it's valuable to let people know that if they have an ambition to be an "iconic computer person", they will have to make large sacrifices. I know that I'm not willing to sacrifice everything else in my life for programming. And I'm alright with that. But I don't criticize the people who have the drive to spend 15-18 on their passion. It's certainly not advice that's widely applicable, though.
- diminish 14y ago
  "Working hard and more than your peers" is shown by many great people as the keys for their success. For example, the German singer Dieter Bohlen of Modern Talking, in his classical first book (best-seller) says also that, his secret for success is, working when others are not.
adrianhoward 14y ago
Indeed. Working longer hours != doing more work. In fact once you get much about 40 hours a week the opposite happens in my experience.
- nmcfarl 14y ago
  And there is actually research in that says this - productivity plummets after 40 hour on the job, and > 60 leads to less work being done, than in a 40 hour work week, because of high error rates.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    I would be interested in seeing that research split into two cohorts: work where you are pushed around by bosses and customers, and work where you are practicing your craft and pursuing whatever directions come naturally. Also, is that 60hours plus a bachelor life, or 60 hours plus chasing kids around at night and in the morning?
  - gte910h 14y ago
    >60 fails to produce more than a 40 hour week after 2 weeks of >60 work
sergiotapia 14y ago
Completely agree with you. Last week I worked 17 hour days, combining my day job and my freelance jobs (2) and I will never do that again if I can help it. It broke my sleep schedule (which is fixed now thank God!) and really took a toll on my mood and motivation. Completely not worth it.
Osmium 14y ago
Couldn't agree more. We all only have one life, and to burn our best years solely on work seems like such a shame. There's a lot to be said about the value and satisfaction of good, hard work, and I'm sure no one here would disagree with that, but there's more to life than work. So much more...
- JoeAltmaier 14y ago
  I flashed on a fantasy where we all retire during our 20s-30s, then work like slaves until we die. Strangely distopian; strange correspondence to what we do now anyway.

"if you are less than 40 and aren’t working at least 15-18 hours a day you are not working enough" I find this to be very bad advise. Nobody should work 18 hrs every day.

npguy 14y ago

That is a really good point. I think the number was probably just mentioned to just show how important it is to work hard.

npguy 14y ago

But I do think that the point on tripling your effort towards the finishing line is a great piece of advice.

dscrd 14y ago

Calculating childcare and housekeeping into the equation, I'm probably doing about 15 hours per day. 18 hours per day would mean that you would get 6 hours absolute maximum of sleep per night, and anyone who does that for longer periods of time is an idiot comparable to a drug abuser.

acuozzo 14y ago
I get __severe__ headaches if I sleep for more than six hours per night. My physicians(s) have no explanation and, I assure you, I've seen several of them in an effort to address this. It's comforting to know that I'm "an idiot comparable to a drug abuser", however. Thanks.
- sirclueless 14y ago
  Well, if it's actually a pathology, it's hardly idiocy. It's pretty moronic to swim in ice water, but if your motorboat sinks halfway across the English channel, you do your best to get back to shore.
- keithpeter 14y ago
  Did your parents have a similar sleep profile? If you don't set an alarm and just sleep until you wake up 'naturally' do you sleep longer and get symptoms, or just wake up after 6 hours or so? Just interested. I tend to wake up 5 to 6 am most mornings without alarm.
- mlvljr 14y ago
  Can't that be due to the lack of fresh air?
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Is there a possibility of an allergy at work?
- dscrd 14y ago
  You weren't the intended recipient of my verbal abuse, and I think you know it :-| Do you work 18 hours a day?

nthj 14y ago

The danger for many (or most) people on Hacker News is not that they're going to slack off and only work 25-35 hours a week, but that they're going to work 60-80 hours a week on the wrong things. And sleep deprived people are really, really crippled at deciding what the wisest thing to work on is.

bcbrown 14y ago

What I have learned from individual athletic competition is that the person who wins is usually the person who is willing to sacrifice the most in order to win - free time, hobbies, family and social relationships, health. I think that's probably true for anything. This is only possible for something that is a deeply held passion. At the same time, by making an inviolable commitment to myself that I was going to enter a certain competition, and accepting as a given that I would be making certain sacrifices in my social and personal life from the training effort required, it made that commitment into something that I just did, without thinking about whether it was something I wanted to do at that moment. And removing that decision, that "do I really want to do this chore?", it's possible to have the consistency of effort necessary for performance at an elite level. So I think it's valuable advice, to say start small, attempt surmountable obstacles, and develop the habit of consistent practice. And I think it's valuable to let people know that if they have an ambition to be an "iconic computer person", they will have to make large sacrifices. I know that I'm not willing to sacrifice everything else in my life for programming. And I'm alright with that. But I don't criticize the people who have the drive to spend 15-18 on their passion. It's certainly not advice that's widely applicable, though.

diminish 14y ago
"Working hard and more than your peers" is shown by many great people as the keys for their success. For example, the German singer Dieter Bohlen of Modern Talking, in his classical first book (best-seller) says also that, his secret for success is, working when others are not.

adrianhoward 14y ago

Indeed. Working longer hours != doing more work. In fact once you get much about 40 hours a week the opposite happens in my experience.

nmcfarl 14y ago
And there is actually research in that says this - productivity plummets after 40 hour on the job, and > 60 leads to less work being done, than in a 40 hour work week, because of high error rates.
- Evbn 14y ago
  I would be interested in seeing that research split into two cohorts: work where you are pushed around by bosses and customers, and work where you are practicing your craft and pursuing whatever directions come naturally. Also, is that 60hours plus a bachelor life, or 60 hours plus chasing kids around at night and in the morning?
- gte910h 14y ago
  >60 fails to produce more than a 40 hour week after 2 weeks of >60 work

sergiotapia 14y ago

Completely agree with you. Last week I worked 17 hour days, combining my day job and my freelance jobs (2) and I will never do that again if I can help it. It broke my sleep schedule (which is fixed now thank God!) and really took a toll on my mood and motivation. Completely not worth it.

Osmium 14y ago

Couldn't agree more. We all only have one life, and to burn our best years solely on work seems like such a shame. There's a lot to be said about the value and satisfaction of good, hard work, and I'm sure no one here would disagree with that, but there's more to life than work. So much more...

JoeAltmaier 14y ago
I flashed on a fantasy where we all retire during our 20s-30s, then work like slaves until we die. Strangely distopian; strange correspondence to what we do now anyway.