3 ms·

How is that a dark pattern? What is the light pattern for getting feedback from users?

buzer 3mo ago
There are multiple ways to use feedback. Personally I would often be fine with actual human reading my feedback, taking in account the points I made and evaluating how it should affect their feature development and future roadmap. Now what I would expect AI companies to do is to take things which were submitted as feedback and pretty much adding to training: "Do more of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as good in feedback>" "Do less of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as bad in feedback>" It's paraphrased, but the point is that they will most likely use it more-or-less as-is and thus whatever is in there will be part of the model's training set rather than someone picking up the parts from response that are important and only including them (which happens with traditional feedback).
- dannyw 3mo ago
  If you have a naive loop like this you will quickly poison your dataset with e.g. thumbs downs because someone is unhappy with the latest frontend update, or teach models to not correctly refuse. I’m sure the pipeline is more sophisticated and in the middle.
  - buzer 3mo ago
    Sure, but the point is more that once you submit feedback then the usual "opt out of using my data for training" no longer apply and at least that reply (and possibly whole conversation) can be included in training set in one way or another.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
- TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
  But we already know they're not using the transcript for training (unless you opted in t that)
  - buzer 3mo ago
    They don't use your general chats it if you have opted out (note: opted out, not opted in). However if you submit feedback then whole conversation can be used. https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is-used-to-improve-model-performance https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is... > Even if you have opted out of training, you can still choose to provide feedback to us about your interactions with our products (for instance, by selecting thumbs up or thumbs down on a model response). If you choose to provide feedback, the entire conversation associated with that feedback may be used to train our models. https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996885-how-do-you-use-personal-data-in-model-training https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996885-how-do-you-us... > If you explicitly report materials to us (e.g.via our thumbs up/down feedback mechanisms), or by otherwise explicitly opting in to training, then we may use those materials to train our models.
    - TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
      Again, that's a yes for OpenAI and a no for Anthropic.
      - buzer 3mo ago
        No for what? The opt-in for model training? About a year ago Anthropic changed "Allow use of your chats and coding sessions to train and improve Anthropic AI models" to default to on: https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms Or do you mean the feedback stuff? Their KB article at least seems to contradict that.
        TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
        No it's opt-in now. Yes they nag you and might ask you if they can use your transcript to train on but you have to agree to it and it's something you can disable.
hedora 3mo ago
Not spam? There’s no “do not ask me again”. Not typosquat? I responded with a sentence beginning in “1” once, and it jumped in during the race. It should have prompted with something like “WARNING: This will allow us to use this session including your source code for training, which is in violation of your account settings. Proceed with “Yes I understand”.

buzer 3mo ago

There are multiple ways to use feedback. Personally I would often be fine with actual human reading my feedback, taking in account the points I made and evaluating how it should affect their feature development and future roadmap. Now what I would expect AI companies to do is to take things which were submitted as feedback and pretty much adding to training: "Do more of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as good in feedback>" "Do less of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as bad in feedback>" It's paraphrased, but the point is that they will most likely use it more-or-less as-is and thus whatever is in there will be part of the model's training set rather than someone picking up the parts from response that are important and only including them (which happens with traditional feedback).

dannyw 3mo ago
If you have a naive loop like this you will quickly poison your dataset with e.g. thumbs downs because someone is unhappy with the latest frontend update, or teach models to not correctly refuse. I’m sure the pipeline is more sophisticated and in the middle.
- buzer 3mo ago
  Sure, but the point is more that once you submit feedback then the usual "opt out of using my data for training" no longer apply and at least that reply (and possibly whole conversation) can be included in training set in one way or another.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
But we already know they're not using the transcript for training (unless you opted in t that)
- buzer 3mo ago
  They don't use your general chats it if you have opted out (note: opted out, not opted in). However if you submit feedback then whole conversation can be used. https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is-used-to-improve-model-performance https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is... > Even if you have opted out of training, you can still choose to provide feedback to us about your interactions with our products (for instance, by selecting thumbs up or thumbs down on a model response). If you choose to provide feedback, the entire conversation associated with that feedback may be used to train our models. https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996885-how-do-you-use-personal-data-in-model-training https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996885-how-do-you-us... > If you explicitly report materials to us (e.g.via our thumbs up/down feedback mechanisms), or by otherwise explicitly opting in to training, then we may use those materials to train our models.
  - TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
    Again, that's a yes for OpenAI and a no for Anthropic.
    - buzer 3mo ago
      No for what? The opt-in for model training? About a year ago Anthropic changed "Allow use of your chats and coding sessions to train and improve Anthropic AI models" to default to on: https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms Or do you mean the feedback stuff? Their KB article at least seems to contradict that.
      - TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
        No it's opt-in now. Yes they nag you and might ask you if they can use your transcript to train on but you have to agree to it and it's something you can disable.

hedora 3mo ago

Not spam? There’s no “do not ask me again”. Not typosquat? I responded with a sentence beginning in “1” once, and it jumped in during the race. It should have prompted with something like “WARNING: This will allow us to use this session including your source code for training, which is in violation of your account settings. Proceed with “Yes I understand”.