4 ms·

How do you separate speculation from legitimate price increases? If the houses are overpriced due to speculation, why isn't someone building Alternatives and un

How do you separate speculation from legitimate price increases? If the houses are overpriced due to speculation, why isn't someone building Alternatives and undercutting them? This implies that there is either a real increase in value, a manufactur bottleneck, or both

alphawhisky 3mo ago
Civil Engineer/City Planner here. The bottleneck is legislative. NIMBY's are all over in US politics right now, local and larger. These folks put together legislation that makes it extremely hard to build without City/County/Township permission, unless the project benefits them in some way. So, most places will disincentivize new construction unless they get a grant for it, because they feel obligated to help their citizens by keeping taxes low and house values high. New construction does the opposite of these things.
- mothballed 3mo ago
  This is exactly it. I built a house for 60k a few years ago in a HCOL area by finding a legal loophole to permitting/planning that bypassed civil engineers, code inspections, and almost all planning. The house next to me, quite similar and 50 years old, is selling for 5x that. In the old days it was common to build your own house. And it usually allows a house for half or less the market price. But this is effectively illegal/impractical in most the US. Some simple changes to legislation would halve the average cost of a house overnight!
  - bell-cot 3mo ago
    I'm thinking that very few folks, these days, have the mindset & skill set & finances & timeframe to build their own houses. And it wouldn't be just the currently-active NIMBY's who fought tooth and nail against any "simple changes" that might halve the average cost of a house overnight.
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      A house doesn't have to be fancy. Live in a tent on a grassy lot? Why not? But you can't, because the lot is unaffordable
      - mothballed 3mo ago
        Last I checked 5 or so years ago a lot big enough to drop a yurt on in San Francisco was only like 100k. Legally unbuildable, but perfectly usable and sanitary with an incinerator toilet, solar, and hauled water. Maybe 200k all in, in roughly the most expensive place in the US.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        If it's legally unbuildable, does that mean you're spending 100k just to get yourself imprisoned for having an illegal structure?
        mothballed 3mo ago
        Yes edit: as a comment, there are a lot of people in places like big island hawaii for instance, that do something like this under burner LLCs with shipping containers, then just move them when caught and do the same thing over again.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        I suppose as long as it's 100% temporary, it might be legal (I am not your lawyer). So maybe a caravan trailer, a tent, or a covered up cargo bicycle will be allowed. But I'm not paying $100k to sleep in a converted bicycle bin, I can do that just as well under a bridge!
        fragmede 3mo ago
        Location, location, location. Where's this bicycle bin and where's this bridge?
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    What was the loophole?
    - mothballed 3mo ago
      Do everything yourself and it never touches commercial regulations on licensing, inspection, and and building plans. I recorded a sworn affidavit with the county I was building it myself on my own property for purely personal residential use and then they issued me a permit explicitly stating I did not need to submit building plans or inspections. Since the house was built without any compensation and not used for any commercial purpose, it bypasses "commerce" which was the auspice under which housing was regulated. When I was done I literally just sent the county a picture of a house and they closed the permit and that was that.
      - inigyou 3mo ago
        Ah. One of those weird bureaucratic legal things. Probably wouldn't fly in most countries that have building permits.
      - 10000truths 3mo ago
        May I ask where this was? This seems like the kind of thing that would be highly dependent on the wording of the laws of your municipality or state.

alphawhisky 3mo ago

Civil Engineer/City Planner here. The bottleneck is legislative. NIMBY's are all over in US politics right now, local and larger. These folks put together legislation that makes it extremely hard to build without City/County/Township permission, unless the project benefits them in some way. So, most places will disincentivize new construction unless they get a grant for it, because they feel obligated to help their citizens by keeping taxes low and house values high. New construction does the opposite of these things.

mothballed 3mo ago
This is exactly it. I built a house for 60k a few years ago in a HCOL area by finding a legal loophole to permitting/planning that bypassed civil engineers, code inspections, and almost all planning. The house next to me, quite similar and 50 years old, is selling for 5x that. In the old days it was common to build your own house. And it usually allows a house for half or less the market price. But this is effectively illegal/impractical in most the US. Some simple changes to legislation would halve the average cost of a house overnight!
- bell-cot 3mo ago
  I'm thinking that very few folks, these days, have the mindset & skill set & finances & timeframe to build their own houses. And it wouldn't be just the currently-active NIMBY's who fought tooth and nail against any "simple changes" that might halve the average cost of a house overnight.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    A house doesn't have to be fancy. Live in a tent on a grassy lot? Why not? But you can't, because the lot is unaffordable
    - mothballed 3mo ago
      Last I checked 5 or so years ago a lot big enough to drop a yurt on in San Francisco was only like 100k. Legally unbuildable, but perfectly usable and sanitary with an incinerator toilet, solar, and hauled water. Maybe 200k all in, in roughly the most expensive place in the US.
      - inigyou 3mo ago
        If it's legally unbuildable, does that mean you're spending 100k just to get yourself imprisoned for having an illegal structure?
        mothballed 3mo ago
        Yes edit: as a comment, there are a lot of people in places like big island hawaii for instance, that do something like this under burner LLCs with shipping containers, then just move them when caught and do the same thing over again.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        I suppose as long as it's 100% temporary, it might be legal (I am not your lawyer). So maybe a caravan trailer, a tent, or a covered up cargo bicycle will be allowed. But I'm not paying $100k to sleep in a converted bicycle bin, I can do that just as well under a bridge!
        fragmede 3mo ago
        Location, location, location. Where's this bicycle bin and where's this bridge?
- inigyou 3mo ago
  What was the loophole?
  - mothballed 3mo ago
    Do everything yourself and it never touches commercial regulations on licensing, inspection, and and building plans. I recorded a sworn affidavit with the county I was building it myself on my own property for purely personal residential use and then they issued me a permit explicitly stating I did not need to submit building plans or inspections. Since the house was built without any compensation and not used for any commercial purpose, it bypasses "commerce" which was the auspice under which housing was regulated. When I was done I literally just sent the county a picture of a house and they closed the permit and that was that.
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      Ah. One of those weird bureaucratic legal things. Probably wouldn't fly in most countries that have building permits.
    - 10000truths 3mo ago
      May I ask where this was? This seems like the kind of thing that would be highly dependent on the wording of the laws of your municipality or state.