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> I would be a lot more bullish on ATProto if there was a way to migrate DIDs and retain all your followers and shit. And if there was proper graphical tools fo

> I would be a lot more bullish on ATProto if there was a way to migrate DIDs and retain all your followers and shit. And if there was proper graphical tools for data migration. This is exactly where I’ve landed re: ATProto. If you actually want to self-host everything you lose one of the biggest draws of it, the migratable IDs. I was looking into it to build an alternative to Threads/IG/TikTok for one of my hobby communities that’s become almost entirely reliant on Meta/Tencent. Being able to plug into the wider AT Proto world was a big draw, but not being able to self host a true alternative to did:plc has put a halt to that for now while I figure out what I want to do.

anon7000 3mo ago
I didn’t fully understand the part of the stack you’re talking about, but it always seemed like one of ATProto’s design goals was to really keep everything on the same distributed system (so to speak) while allowing people to host the bits individually that all contribute to the same connected system. Eg not having fully separate networks that don’t talk to each other
- hack1312 3mo ago
  If you want a nice overview of the DID stuff, Steve Klabnik just recently made a post going into detail about did:plc and did:web https://steveklabnik.com/writing/too-many-words-about-dids/ https://steveklabnik.com/writing/too-many-words-about-dids/
danabramov 3mo ago
I don't know what you mean by this. You absolutely can self-host all your data on your own. And if you also don't want to rely on PLC for identity, you make a `did:web` identity, and then you're completely decoupled from Bluesky-operated infra.
- hack1312 3mo ago
  Dan my concern is explicitly that did:web is not the same experience for users as a did:plc. If I host AT Proto infra for my community and want to give people <usename>.<domain> accounts, I can either host a did:web for them which ties their account permanently to that domain, or they have to register with the centralized PLC to actually have all the benefits of a migratable DID. did:web does not provide the same UX as did:plc From the post I was responding to: > Second, even if you're on a PDS, you're still reliant on the Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) to host your Distributed ID (DID) document. The PLC is run by Bluesky, although they've taken steps to make it easy to notice if they were to do something fucky with the PLC. But let's say we don't like that. There is a solution: you can host your DID document on a normal web server. Problem solved? > > Well, if you were setting up an account for the first time, then yes, the problem is actually solved, you're 100% independent of Bluesky. But if you made the mistake of registering an account normally, you have a did:plc identity. And one core principle of ATProto is that identity names never ever ever change. So if you go and make a did:web identity, it's like having a second account, there is no way to tie your old did:plc identity into it. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can't even redirect one did:web identity to another (say if you need to switch domain names)
  - danabramov 3mo ago
    I did read your post :) Yes, you can't migrate between PLC and WEB methods. It's not possible. I get that it's frustrating if you learn about it after making an account. Is that the whole concern? I was replying to this: >not being able to self host a true alternative to did:plc has put a halt to that for now while I figure out what I want to do. I'm saying I don't know what this means. You can fully self-host with `did:web`. Yes, it's unfortunate that you've already made an account by the time you've realized that. I think that's still different from "not being able to self host". Unless I'm just parsing what you wrote incorrectly, which is quite possible!
    - hack1312 3mo ago
      My understanding is that if I want to host AT Proto infra for my community and want to give people <usename>.<domain> account, I can either host a did:web for them which ties their account permanently to that domain, or they have to register with the centralized PLC to actually have all the benefits of a migratable DID, while tying themselves to a central authority. Ergo, did:web does not provide the same UX as did:plc and there’s currently no way (that I know of) to provide such UX to users without requiring them to register did:plc accounts

anon7000 3mo ago

I didn’t fully understand the part of the stack you’re talking about, but it always seemed like one of ATProto’s design goals was to really keep everything on the same distributed system (so to speak) while allowing people to host the bits individually that all contribute to the same connected system. Eg not having fully separate networks that don’t talk to each other

hack1312 3mo ago
If you want a nice overview of the DID stuff, Steve Klabnik just recently made a post going into detail about did:plc and did:web https://steveklabnik.com/writing/too-many-words-about-dids/ https://steveklabnik.com/writing/too-many-words-about-dids/

danabramov 3mo ago

I don't know what you mean by this. You absolutely can self-host all your data on your own. And if you also don't want to rely on PLC for identity, you make a `did:web` identity, and then you're completely decoupled from Bluesky-operated infra.

hack1312 3mo ago
Dan my concern is explicitly that did:web is not the same experience for users as a did:plc. If I host AT Proto infra for my community and want to give people <usename>.<domain> accounts, I can either host a did:web for them which ties their account permanently to that domain, or they have to register with the centralized PLC to actually have all the benefits of a migratable DID. did:web does not provide the same UX as did:plc From the post I was responding to: > Second, even if you're on a PDS, you're still reliant on the Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) to host your Distributed ID (DID) document. The PLC is run by Bluesky, although they've taken steps to make it easy to notice if they were to do something fucky with the PLC. But let's say we don't like that. There is a solution: you can host your DID document on a normal web server. Problem solved? > > Well, if you were setting up an account for the first time, then yes, the problem is actually solved, you're 100% independent of Bluesky. But if you made the mistake of registering an account normally, you have a did:plc identity. And one core principle of ATProto is that identity names never ever ever change. So if you go and make a did:web identity, it's like having a second account, there is no way to tie your old did:plc identity into it. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can't even redirect one did:web identity to another (say if you need to switch domain names)
- danabramov 3mo ago
  I did read your post :) Yes, you can't migrate between PLC and WEB methods. It's not possible. I get that it's frustrating if you learn about it after making an account. Is that the whole concern? I was replying to this: >not being able to self host a true alternative to did:plc has put a halt to that for now while I figure out what I want to do. I'm saying I don't know what this means. You can fully self-host with `did:web`. Yes, it's unfortunate that you've already made an account by the time you've realized that. I think that's still different from "not being able to self host". Unless I'm just parsing what you wrote incorrectly, which is quite possible!
  - hack1312 3mo ago
    My understanding is that if I want to host AT Proto infra for my community and want to give people <usename>.<domain> account, I can either host a did:web for them which ties their account permanently to that domain, or they have to register with the centralized PLC to actually have all the benefits of a migratable DID, while tying themselves to a central authority. Ergo, did:web does not provide the same UX as did:plc and there’s currently no way (that I know of) to provide such UX to users without requiring them to register did:plc accounts