3 ms·

Haha, very interesting. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of it all but from the title I suspected it might be something like this. There's no objective meas

by arjie 3mo ago

Haha, very interesting. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of it all but from the title I suspected it might be something like this. There's no objective measure after all of what a good book is. It's not bad for the process. The top few universally seem pretty good. I have noticed that the Hugo Awards appear to have declined somewhat in quality. The Murderbot series is enjoyable, yes, but it's a winner just like Dune and I think that's odd. Perhaps it's my tastes that are changing or my tastes are stagnating and the world is evolving. Ah well. Oh and, about the cronyism angle in literary prizes, I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Nobel_Prize_in_Literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Nobel_Prize_in_Literature is a good read. They picked members of their own academy that year and eventually one of the winners killed himself (perhaps over it).

TurdF3rguson 3mo ago
Agreed on Murderbot, it's a fun read but there's no big new ideas there and that's what Hugo used to be about.
- arjie 3mo ago
  That's exactly how I feel, but perhaps as others point out, I have simply tinted my glasses rose.
zeroonetwothree 3mo ago
The Hugo awards have had a lot of weak winners in the past as well. For example: They’d Rather Be Right, The Wanderer, Stand on Zanzibar (some people might disagree), Harry Potter, Hominids, etc And have had many winning books that are enjoyable without “big ideas” as well. In the end it’s just a fan voted award and subject to marketing and politics. Judged awards are perhaps a bit more consistent in reflecting quality? (Though maybe not) And not every year gives us a Dune or A Fire Upon the Deep :)
- arjie 3mo ago
  Haha, Hominids! That was definitely one where I was left thinking "Oh that's it?" haha. Fair point fair point. I do think Harry Potter is like the Murderbot series. And to be clear, I really enjoyed Harry Potter when I was young. Can still recall getting the book at my maternal grandparents' place as a present.
autarch 3mo ago
Murderbot was 2021. I would defend it as a winner, but take a look at other recent years: * 2020 - A Memory Called Empire by Arkady Martine - a science fiction story set in a future Aztec space empire - quite inventive and odd. The sequel won in 2022. * 2024 - Some Desperate Glory by Emily Tesh - basically a story about growing up as a terrorist in a sci-fi setting, with some wild turns. * 2025 - The Tainted Cup by Robert Bennett Jackson - a very bizarre Holmes & Watson take set in a land constantly invaded by sea kaiju, and where there's "magic" (or is it science) based on harvesting the dead kaiju's bodies. These are all excellent books, each of which has something different to recommend them. Are they as good as Dune? Well, it's very hard to say _now_. Assuming humans still exist in 60 years, will they still read them like we read Dune 60 years from its publication? Maybe. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land won in 1961. I've read it, and I don't think it's aged very well. It's certainly not Dune. How many people are still reading the 1969 winner, John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar? I _have_ read it. It's good, but nowhere close to Dune. And how about 1978's winner, Gateway by Frederik Pohl? It's ... fine. It's not even in the same category as Dune, IMO. Dune is an outlier among _all_ winners. It's one of the best SF books of all time, with a voice that still seems fresh today. Most Hugo (and Nebula) just don't live up to this standard. There are a few that do, like Left Hand of Darkness, Ender's Game, Hyperion, and Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (better than Dune, IMO). But those are outliers just like Dune.
- gnabgib 3mo ago
  Murderbot Diaries (the eight books) start in 2017[0], Murderbot series (TV) started in 2025[1]. Where are you getting 2021 from? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderbot_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderbot_(TV_series)
  - autarch 3mo ago
    Murderbot won the Hugo for best novel in 2021. This is the first _novel_ in the series. The previous publications were novellas, and so not in the same category. I suspect that the award may have been in part for the series and not this book specifically. We see this in other years, for example with N.K. Jemisin winning the Nebula for Stone Sky, the third book in a trilogy. Was Stone Sky better than the first two, or was this just a way to recognize a great overall series? I really like that the Hugos added a Best Series category in 2017 to hopefully avoid this sort of thing. It seems like a great series is a different beast than a great single novel.

by arjie 3mo ago

TurdF3rguson 3mo ago

Agreed on Murderbot, it's a fun read but there's no big new ideas there and that's what Hugo used to be about.

arjie 3mo ago
That's exactly how I feel, but perhaps as others point out, I have simply tinted my glasses rose.

zeroonetwothree 3mo ago

The Hugo awards have had a lot of weak winners in the past as well. For example: They’d Rather Be Right, The Wanderer, Stand on Zanzibar (some people might disagree), Harry Potter, Hominids, etc And have had many winning books that are enjoyable without “big ideas” as well. In the end it’s just a fan voted award and subject to marketing and politics. Judged awards are perhaps a bit more consistent in reflecting quality? (Though maybe not) And not every year gives us a Dune or A Fire Upon the Deep :)

arjie 3mo ago
Haha, Hominids! That was definitely one where I was left thinking "Oh that's it?" haha. Fair point fair point. I do think Harry Potter is like the Murderbot series. And to be clear, I really enjoyed Harry Potter when I was young. Can still recall getting the book at my maternal grandparents' place as a present.

autarch 3mo ago

Murderbot was 2021. I would defend it as a winner, but take a look at other recent years: * 2020 - A Memory Called Empire by Arkady Martine - a science fiction story set in a future Aztec space empire - quite inventive and odd. The sequel won in 2022. * 2024 - Some Desperate Glory by Emily Tesh - basically a story about growing up as a terrorist in a sci-fi setting, with some wild turns. * 2025 - The Tainted Cup by Robert Bennett Jackson - a very bizarre Holmes & Watson take set in a land constantly invaded by sea kaiju, and where there's "magic" (or is it science) based on harvesting the dead kaiju's bodies. These are all excellent books, each of which has something different to recommend them. Are they as good as Dune? Well, it's very hard to say _now_. Assuming humans still exist in 60 years, will they still read them like we read Dune 60 years from its publication? Maybe. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land won in 1961. I've read it, and I don't think it's aged very well. It's certainly not Dune. How many people are still reading the 1969 winner, John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar? I _have_ read it. It's good, but nowhere close to Dune. And how about 1978's winner, Gateway by Frederik Pohl? It's ... fine. It's not even in the same category as Dune, IMO. Dune is an outlier among _all_ winners. It's one of the best SF books of all time, with a voice that still seems fresh today. Most Hugo (and Nebula) just don't live up to this standard. There are a few that do, like Left Hand of Darkness, Ender's Game, Hyperion, and Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (better than Dune, IMO). But those are outliers just like Dune.

gnabgib 3mo ago
Murderbot Diaries (the eight books) start in 2017[0], Murderbot series (TV) started in 2025[1]. Where are you getting 2021 from? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderbot_Diaries [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderbot_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderbot_(TV_series)
- autarch 3mo ago
  Murderbot won the Hugo for best novel in 2021. This is the first _novel_ in the series. The previous publications were novellas, and so not in the same category. I suspect that the award may have been in part for the series and not this book specifically. We see this in other years, for example with N.K. Jemisin winning the Nebula for Stone Sky, the third book in a trilogy. Was Stone Sky better than the first two, or was this just a way to recognize a great overall series? I really like that the Hugos added a Best Series category in 2017 to hopefully avoid this sort of thing. It seems like a great series is a different beast than a great single novel.