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On a barely-related note, I'm getting a little tired of job openings at startups that emphatically require Shadcn and Tailwind for dedicated frontend developmen

On a barely-related note, I'm getting a little tired of job openings at startups that emphatically require Shadcn and Tailwind for dedicated frontend development. Shadcn and Tailwind are crutches for "fullstack" devs -- if I'm a really accomplished frontend developer, they make little sense for me to use and hamper what I can do for you. Just a peeve.

foxygen 3mo ago
I don’t know about Shadcn, but how does Tailaind hampers your ability to do anything?
- Exoristos 3mo ago
  Some developers are CSS experts.
  - foxygen 3mo ago
    Can you show me some examples that are hard to implement in Tailwind? I've been using Tailwind for an app with a somewhat complex UI for the past ~2 years, and it works great most of the time. Sometimes it doesn't, but then I write some CSS. Tailwind doesn't stop me from doing so.
    - whatshisface 3mo ago
      Tailwind removes the C and the S, leaving only the S in CSS. (In long form, CSS is supposed to encourage modularity and a separation of concerns, concepts totally abandoned in the world of per-element styles.)
      - Yiin 3mo ago
        Tailwind is the worst form of CSS, except for all the others.
    - Exoristos 3mo ago
      You're kind of missing the point. I'll probably bungle this analogy, but why is it important to a furniture startup that a master carpenter can put together Ikea?
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
      - teknofobi 3mo ago
        Because you’ll be a force multiplier making the IKEA builders have nicer materials and surface finishes, instead of making really nice furniture pieces that get thrown away on every redesign. Same reason to want a .NET backend dev that plays well with others, instead of a lisp dev with a perfect reimplementation of their own web framework, but going across stacks or teams requires onboarding on the tech instead of just the domain
benswerd 3mo ago
With respect to CSS expertise, I don't need/want perfect CSS at my company, I want styling that is clear and workable. Tailwind and ShadCN gets me there, my most backend-y backend engineer gets tailwind. The job of CSS on my team is not to be beautiful or top 1%, its to function.
maxcb 3mo ago
I suppose not everyone is a really accomplished frontend developer, though. Better to stick to accessible solutions like Shadcn and Tailwind, rather than have a project stagnate should the accomplished frontend developer leave. Maybe AI adds a layer of protection here, but either way most companies esp. startups, don't need CSS masters, they need people who can build solutions.

foxygen 3mo ago

I don’t know about Shadcn, but how does Tailaind hampers your ability to do anything?

Exoristos 3mo ago
Some developers are CSS experts.
- foxygen 3mo ago
  Can you show me some examples that are hard to implement in Tailwind? I've been using Tailwind for an app with a somewhat complex UI for the past ~2 years, and it works great most of the time. Sometimes it doesn't, but then I write some CSS. Tailwind doesn't stop me from doing so.
  - whatshisface 3mo ago
    Tailwind removes the C and the S, leaving only the S in CSS. (In long form, CSS is supposed to encourage modularity and a separation of concerns, concepts totally abandoned in the world of per-element styles.)
    - Yiin 3mo ago
      Tailwind is the worst form of CSS, except for all the others.
  - Exoristos 3mo ago
    You're kind of missing the point. I'll probably bungle this analogy, but why is it important to a furniture startup that a master carpenter can put together Ikea?
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
    - teknofobi 3mo ago
      Because you’ll be a force multiplier making the IKEA builders have nicer materials and surface finishes, instead of making really nice furniture pieces that get thrown away on every redesign. Same reason to want a .NET backend dev that plays well with others, instead of a lisp dev with a perfect reimplementation of their own web framework, but going across stacks or teams requires onboarding on the tech instead of just the domain

benswerd 3mo ago

With respect to CSS expertise, I don't need/want perfect CSS at my company, I want styling that is clear and workable. Tailwind and ShadCN gets me there, my most backend-y backend engineer gets tailwind. The job of CSS on my team is not to be beautiful or top 1%, its to function.

maxcb 3mo ago

I suppose not everyone is a really accomplished frontend developer, though. Better to stick to accessible solutions like Shadcn and Tailwind, rather than have a project stagnate should the accomplished frontend developer leave. Maybe AI adds a layer of protection here, but either way most companies esp. startups, don't need CSS masters, they need people who can build solutions.