4 ms·

I think the eye roll is the need to shout that you don’t use AI. It’s the new web dev, imo. This post wasn’t about sparking conversation. It’s about using AI

I think the eye roll is the need to shout that you don’t use AI. It’s the new web dev, imo. This post wasn’t about sparking conversation. It’s about using AI makes me lose the human touch in what I do, blah blah, heard it all before. Sorry, not sorry.

tony_cannistra 3mo ago
TFA raises several points I hadn't heard before. Here's one. The artifacts we produce define our culture. If we allow LLMs to produce our work, our culture represents that which they understand. But LLMs can't be trained on the entirety of the human experience. "How dare we abandon so many countless traditions and people and ideas and nuances, simply because they are underrepresented in the training data?" I just feel like that's not performative in the way you're insinuating. That feels like a take to me. Respectful engagement is what I expected here.
- Levitz 3mo ago
  But that's not anything new, and even in the same text you can see examples of that. LLMs are a tool. The brush is a tool, the pencil is a tool. The way we write already is defined by tools. This very comment is remarkably defined by its medium, I can't control its font size! Or the font at all, for that matter, nor the color, hell I can't even control how and where this comment is read! This means I'm generally going to write it in English, a whole different language from my native one! How is that for "defining"??? None of this is new, it's all dictated by human experience in the very same way that the output of a LLM gets dictated by human experience. That's the way memes (as in, anthropology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme?) work. LLMs don't understand, they just output based on some parameters. We've been here before.
- gumby 3mo ago
  The LLM is the next generation of 20th century culture. Until the early 20th century, all stories (from before homer to Shakespeare, through Dickens and so on), music etc we continual remix and interpretation. But as recording became possible and then film, cultural elements mixed with law adopted expensive production and started to become more locked down. Corporations (which are just machines themselves) made musical acts whose members were just actors playing a role (still happens today with K-pop being the most successful). Disney colonized the public domain and drowned out the origins, with their versions becoming canonical But consumers were willing participants. Rather than make a costume of your favorite character people now preferentially seek out licensed versions of dolls, costumes, “official” soundtracks etc rather than treating it all as just more raw material for your own imagination. I’m not saying there isn’t fanfic and remix culture as well but when was the last time you saw a kid with a home-made “character” T-shirt? They even buy sport jerseys with the ads included! So the mechanical slop infiltrating culture is just the current apotheosis of this process atrophy of the imagination. Truly it is degenerative AI
happytoexplain 3mo ago
It is one of the biggest things to ever happen in the history of software, art, and writing. We're nowhere near the "it's meaningless to talk about why you don't like it" threshold.
- stackghost 3mo ago
  >We're nowhere near the "it's meaningless to talk about why you don't like it" threshold. We crossed that threshold at least a year ago.
- blinkbat 3mo ago
  we're so near and literally beyond that threshold
echelon 3mo ago
[flagged]
- happytoexplain 3mo ago
  It's very hard to be happy about things that actively reduce one's happiness. This isn't unreasonable. You have a different experience - that doesn't make everybody else an idiot. In fact, your comment (regardless of attitude on AI) is exactly an example of the kind of attitude that is in opposition to the curiosity, positivity, and humanity that HN historically represents.
  - echelon 3mo ago
    > In fact, your comment (regardless of attitude on AI) is exactly an example of the kind of attitude that is in opposition to the curiosity, positivity, and humanity that HN historically represents. My patience has worn out. I've tolerated the anti-AI sentiment for years, but at this point it's beyond grating. I've heard all the arguments, I've been called all the names. The anti-AI crowd is frequently uncivil, and that just gets to glide by. I'm tired of it. I don't go flagging every anti AI voice here, regardless of how hateful or cruel it is.
    - therobots927 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - echelon 3mo ago
        This is the kind of civil discourse HN allows these days.
        therobots927 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        3mo ago

tony_cannistra 3mo ago

TFA raises several points I hadn't heard before. Here's one. The artifacts we produce define our culture. If we allow LLMs to produce our work, our culture represents that which they understand. But LLMs can't be trained on the entirety of the human experience. "How dare we abandon so many countless traditions and people and ideas and nuances, simply because they are underrepresented in the training data?" I just feel like that's not performative in the way you're insinuating. That feels like a take to me. Respectful engagement is what I expected here.

Levitz 3mo ago
But that's not anything new, and even in the same text you can see examples of that. LLMs are a tool. The brush is a tool, the pencil is a tool. The way we write already is defined by tools. This very comment is remarkably defined by its medium, I can't control its font size! Or the font at all, for that matter, nor the color, hell I can't even control how and where this comment is read! This means I'm generally going to write it in English, a whole different language from my native one! How is that for "defining"??? None of this is new, it's all dictated by human experience in the very same way that the output of a LLM gets dictated by human experience. That's the way memes (as in, anthropology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme?) work. LLMs don't understand, they just output based on some parameters. We've been here before.
gumby 3mo ago
The LLM is the next generation of 20th century culture. Until the early 20th century, all stories (from before homer to Shakespeare, through Dickens and so on), music etc we continual remix and interpretation. But as recording became possible and then film, cultural elements mixed with law adopted expensive production and started to become more locked down. Corporations (which are just machines themselves) made musical acts whose members were just actors playing a role (still happens today with K-pop being the most successful). Disney colonized the public domain and drowned out the origins, with their versions becoming canonical But consumers were willing participants. Rather than make a costume of your favorite character people now preferentially seek out licensed versions of dolls, costumes, “official” soundtracks etc rather than treating it all as just more raw material for your own imagination. I’m not saying there isn’t fanfic and remix culture as well but when was the last time you saw a kid with a home-made “character” T-shirt? They even buy sport jerseys with the ads included! So the mechanical slop infiltrating culture is just the current apotheosis of this process atrophy of the imagination. Truly it is degenerative AI

happytoexplain 3mo ago

It is one of the biggest things to ever happen in the history of software, art, and writing. We're nowhere near the "it's meaningless to talk about why you don't like it" threshold.

stackghost 3mo ago
>We're nowhere near the "it's meaningless to talk about why you don't like it" threshold. We crossed that threshold at least a year ago.
blinkbat 3mo ago
we're so near and literally beyond that threshold

echelon 3mo ago

[flagged]

happytoexplain 3mo ago
It's very hard to be happy about things that actively reduce one's happiness. This isn't unreasonable. You have a different experience - that doesn't make everybody else an idiot. In fact, your comment (regardless of attitude on AI) is exactly an example of the kind of attitude that is in opposition to the curiosity, positivity, and humanity that HN historically represents.
- echelon 3mo ago
  > In fact, your comment (regardless of attitude on AI) is exactly an example of the kind of attitude that is in opposition to the curiosity, positivity, and humanity that HN historically represents. My patience has worn out. I've tolerated the anti-AI sentiment for years, but at this point it's beyond grating. I've heard all the arguments, I've been called all the names. The anti-AI crowd is frequently uncivil, and that just gets to glide by. I'm tired of it. I don't go flagging every anti AI voice here, regardless of how hateful or cruel it is.
  - therobots927 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - echelon 3mo ago
      This is the kind of civil discourse HN allows these days.
      - therobots927 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        3mo ago