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I see that point differently. Typing code and using AI well are distinctly different things. I've dealt with Chinese subcontracting managers before. But managi

by jdw64 3mo ago

I see that point differently. Typing code and using AI well are distinctly different things. I've dealt with Chinese subcontracting managers before. But managing people is different from doing code reviews and writing code. I think these two are fundamentally similar but different. Of course, it's undeniable that you need a certain level of skill to verify the output, which is why I practice typing for an hour every day. But that aside, while it's true that good coders may have a head start in using AI well, I don't think they're essentially the same thing. The reason I say this is simple: AI has already learned more than I have in many areas. Good code often involves a lot of error handling. But humans can't cover all of those edge cases. Even something like UAF (Use-After-Free) can happen depending on timing, and pointers may not release properly. But AI catches these things surprisingly well. So I think this way: on average, it may be true that people with higher coding skills use AI better, but I think it's hard to say that means they're better at using AI. People who are good at using AI are usually those who break functions down into more readable pieces and set boundaries better, rather than those who are good at LeetCode-style problems. That's similar to being a good coder, but it's a slightly different skill set. I respect your opinion, but I think an additional layer will emerge.

slopinthebag 3mo ago
You sound like you’re young and you don’t have a ton of experience programming yet. Id be cautious about outsourcing your knowledge and skill development to LLMs at this time. There is a massive gap between what a beginner and expert can achieve with LLMs - in fact I’ve seen plenty of people who’s use of AI results in a net negative! You need to develop your skills and knowledge in order to best make use of LLMs. You can even use the LLMs to learn and grow, but I think it’s dangerous for your career to have the mentality that AI is and will always be a better programmer. Anyways just my opinion, I don’t mean it in an offensive way at all, I just think that people need to be careful about how they approach their usage of LLMs. Even experienced people need to be careful and ensure they don’t lose their own skills.
- jdw64 3mo ago
  Thank you for your kindness. If we're just counting years, I've been programming since college, so that's about 15 years, but my professional experience is around 7 to 8 years. It's a short career, and if that makes me young, then I'm young. I agree with you that offloading knowledge and skill development to LLMs is a real problem, and I also agree that there's a huge gap between what a beginner and an expert can achieve using LLMs. (I was born in 1992.) I agree with most of what you're saying, and I think you're giving me thoughtful advice out of genuine concern. I agree with nearly all of it. I think of the phenomenon you're describing as "layering of input." Everything you've cautiously advised me on, I believe you're right. The atrophy of coding muscle from using AI is happening to me too. That's why I make myself type for at least an hour a day, just to maintain the coding muscle I need to actually read what the AI generates. The problem is, I'm a freelancer, and I have to accept the reality that the market itself has already shifted around AI. Open source developers can show off the aesthetic beauty of their code to others and attract sponsors. But I'm a freelance developer, and I usually get paid per project. These days, with AI vibe coding, not only are companies handling more things in house, but deadlines have become drastically shorter compared to before. What used to be a two month project is now a one month project. And the trouble is, I charge by the month. So the workload has gone up, but my pay has effectively gone down. I also think, as you said, that people should be more careful about how they use LLMs. But the landscape has shifted so much, and in this environment, I think the people who use it more will end up using it more adeptly. In other words, I've changed from a programmer who models with typing and UML into a programmer who models by using an LLM. I don't know which direction is the better one. That said, I admit there's probably some self rationalization going on, because I don't really have a choice. The moment I stop working, I can't make rent. The open source world isn't really open to someone like me, an Asian guy. I upvoted you because I'm not taking your advice in bad faith. I understand where your heart is, but there's a part of me that just feels like I don't have much of a choice. Have a good day.
  - slopinthebag 3mo ago
    People gotta do what they gotta do to make money, no issues with that. Best of luck brother.

by jdw64 3mo ago

slopinthebag 3mo ago

You sound like you’re young and you don’t have a ton of experience programming yet. Id be cautious about outsourcing your knowledge and skill development to LLMs at this time. There is a massive gap between what a beginner and expert can achieve with LLMs - in fact I’ve seen plenty of people who’s use of AI results in a net negative! You need to develop your skills and knowledge in order to best make use of LLMs. You can even use the LLMs to learn and grow, but I think it’s dangerous for your career to have the mentality that AI is and will always be a better programmer. Anyways just my opinion, I don’t mean it in an offensive way at all, I just think that people need to be careful about how they approach their usage of LLMs. Even experienced people need to be careful and ensure they don’t lose their own skills.

jdw64 3mo ago
Thank you for your kindness. If we're just counting years, I've been programming since college, so that's about 15 years, but my professional experience is around 7 to 8 years. It's a short career, and if that makes me young, then I'm young. I agree with you that offloading knowledge and skill development to LLMs is a real problem, and I also agree that there's a huge gap between what a beginner and an expert can achieve using LLMs. (I was born in 1992.) I agree with most of what you're saying, and I think you're giving me thoughtful advice out of genuine concern. I agree with nearly all of it. I think of the phenomenon you're describing as "layering of input." Everything you've cautiously advised me on, I believe you're right. The atrophy of coding muscle from using AI is happening to me too. That's why I make myself type for at least an hour a day, just to maintain the coding muscle I need to actually read what the AI generates. The problem is, I'm a freelancer, and I have to accept the reality that the market itself has already shifted around AI. Open source developers can show off the aesthetic beauty of their code to others and attract sponsors. But I'm a freelance developer, and I usually get paid per project. These days, with AI vibe coding, not only are companies handling more things in house, but deadlines have become drastically shorter compared to before. What used to be a two month project is now a one month project. And the trouble is, I charge by the month. So the workload has gone up, but my pay has effectively gone down. I also think, as you said, that people should be more careful about how they use LLMs. But the landscape has shifted so much, and in this environment, I think the people who use it more will end up using it more adeptly. In other words, I've changed from a programmer who models with typing and UML into a programmer who models by using an LLM. I don't know which direction is the better one. That said, I admit there's probably some self rationalization going on, because I don't really have a choice. The moment I stop working, I can't make rent. The open source world isn't really open to someone like me, an Asian guy. I upvoted you because I'm not taking your advice in bad faith. I understand where your heart is, but there's a part of me that just feels like I don't have much of a choice. Have a good day.
- slopinthebag 3mo ago
  People gotta do what they gotta do to make money, no issues with that. Best of luck brother.