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Yeah. “Rent-seeking” is just a fancy rhetorical term for “people doing things I don’t like with money”. Subscriptions are rent-seeking. Loans are rent-seeking.

by brookst 3mo ago

Yeah. “Rent-seeking” is just a fancy rhetorical term for “people doing things I don’t like with money”. Subscriptions are rent-seeking. Loans are rent-seeking. Spending millions in capital to buy a building and renting apartments for thousands? Rent-seeking. Copyright and patents, for sure, unless an AI company is involved in which case copyright is noble and must last a thousand years, because AI companies are rent-seeking.

dwb 3mo ago
No, too reductive. Rent-seeking is when people manipulate a situation to charge money without providing value themselves. Landlords are rent-seekers to the extent that they don’t do much, they mostly just own property - typical rent is many, many times the value of someone looking after the maintenance and building insurance for you (and anything else you want to argue a landlord does). The housing supply is naturally quite limited so the market doesn’t self-correct. And anyway, if enough people don’t like the things people are doing with money, we can stop them from happening! So a pretty odd gotcha, to me.
- Brendinooo 3mo ago
  I mean, you saying that landlords don't do much is the exactly what I meant when I said "arguing about what 'adding economic value' means" >typical rent is many, many times the value of someone looking after the maintenance and building insurance for you I'm curious about this. I'm not sure if there's a universal rule of thumb, but it's something like "expect 1-4% of the home's value in maintenance every year" - $4,000 to $16,000 on a $400,000 home. Take the lowest end of that - $333/month in expected maintenance a year. Add $100/month for home insurance. You're claiming "many, many times" $433 a month in that scenario? Given more recent interest rates and the uptick in "maybe you should rent for awhile, actually" articles/videos I've seen, this doesn't strike me as plausible...
  - dwb 3mo ago
    Certainly where I live, rents are many times that, yes. If landlords really were just charging cost plus a modest profit (despite that I really object to any profit on housing) I wouldn’t be outraged.
    - Brendinooo 3mo ago
      okay, so like...7x that $433 figure? $3000 a month? If a mortgage + escrow payment on a 400k house is around $2500/month, a comparable rent is $5500 a month? Where do you live, if I may ask? I live in a reasonably sane market which might be why this isn't clicking for me.
Brendinooo 3mo ago
Not sure what the intent behind this reply is but - I guess it's strictly true and I think we're agreeing in some sense, but to be clear I think it is totally fine to say that scalpers are doing things I don't like with money, and I'd like to see their excesses curbed.

by brookst 3mo ago

dwb 3mo ago

No, too reductive. Rent-seeking is when people manipulate a situation to charge money without providing value themselves. Landlords are rent-seekers to the extent that they don’t do much, they mostly just own property - typical rent is many, many times the value of someone looking after the maintenance and building insurance for you (and anything else you want to argue a landlord does). The housing supply is naturally quite limited so the market doesn’t self-correct. And anyway, if enough people don’t like the things people are doing with money, we can stop them from happening! So a pretty odd gotcha, to me.

Brendinooo 3mo ago
I mean, you saying that landlords don't do much is the exactly what I meant when I said "arguing about what 'adding economic value' means" >typical rent is many, many times the value of someone looking after the maintenance and building insurance for you I'm curious about this. I'm not sure if there's a universal rule of thumb, but it's something like "expect 1-4% of the home's value in maintenance every year" - $4,000 to $16,000 on a $400,000 home. Take the lowest end of that - $333/month in expected maintenance a year. Add $100/month for home insurance. You're claiming "many, many times" $433 a month in that scenario? Given more recent interest rates and the uptick in "maybe you should rent for awhile, actually" articles/videos I've seen, this doesn't strike me as plausible...
- dwb 3mo ago
  Certainly where I live, rents are many times that, yes. If landlords really were just charging cost plus a modest profit (despite that I really object to any profit on housing) I wouldn’t be outraged.
  - Brendinooo 3mo ago
    okay, so like...7x that $433 figure? $3000 a month? If a mortgage + escrow payment on a 400k house is around $2500/month, a comparable rent is $5500 a month? Where do you live, if I may ask? I live in a reasonably sane market which might be why this isn't clicking for me.

Brendinooo 3mo ago

Not sure what the intent behind this reply is but - I guess it's strictly true and I think we're agreeing in some sense, but to be clear I think it is totally fine to say that scalpers are doing things I don't like with money, and I'd like to see their excesses curbed.