4 ms·

> For something free I can get why this would seem unreasonable (modulo scams, for which this is a hoop I would rather have than not), but if money's involved,

> For something free I can get why this would seem unreasonable (modulo scams, for which this is a hoop I would rather have than not), but if money's involved, a consumer should be able to contact a human and be made whole, and having the money be handled by a company (even if that company is just a one-man-show) honestly does not seem unreasonable. You're buying a digital good. You can already get refunds. An email address is fine for contact. You definitely don't need someone's physical home address, nor an actual phone number.

Telaneo 3mo ago
I don't need a physical address nor a phone number to get a refund from my local electronics store either, but I do believe they should be available.
- demosthanos 3mo ago
  Apple is the analog to the local electronics store. They're the ones with the direct relationship with you, they're the ones you paid, they took a 30% cut off the app developer's top line explicitly under the pretext that they handle the whole store arrangement. And sure enough, they are in fact the ones who can issue a refund if you need one. The developer cannot. By design.
  - Telaneo 3mo ago
    > Apple is the analog to the local electronics store. They're the ones with the direct relationship with you, they're the ones you paid, they took a 30% cut off the app developer's top line explicitly under the pretext that they handle the whole store arrangement. Yet I can also ask Dell for a refund despite buying my Dell at my local electronics store. Both should be reachable and both should be able to give me a refund if my item is broken. > And sure enough, they are in fact the ones who can issue a refund if you need one. The developer cannot. By design. And Apple should fix that.
    - demosthanos 3mo ago
      No, Dell will not give you a refund for something purchased at a retailer. For general returns and refunds, the retailer is on the hook because they're the ones who actually took your money. What Dell will do is repair or replace a computer that is still under warranty. They won't refund.
      - Telaneo 3mo ago
        > No, Dell will not give you a refund for something purchased at a retailer. They're legally required to.[1] [1] https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/2002-06-21-34/KAPITTEL_5#KAPITTEL_5 https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/2002-06-21-34/KAPITTEL_5... Section 35 Edit: Forgot there's an English version.
        demosthanos 3mo ago
        Fair enough, I didn't realize Norwegian law had this provision. EU-wide and US law do not, so this is pretty specific to the Nordic countries from what I can tell.
        Telaneo 3mo ago
        The joys of consumer protection. This one is fairly old (2002), and doesn't have any origin in any EU law, although I would have though that the EU had something roughly equivalent by now, and if they don't, they really should.
        murderfs 3mo ago
        I don't understand how this functions in practice: if business A sells a widget to reseller B who sells it to reseller C who sells it to the customer, there's multiple layers of markup. How can the original manufacturer be expected to refund the purchase price? Reading the law, it does not say that the consumer is entitled to a refund.
        Telaneo 3mo ago

Telaneo 3mo ago

I don't need a physical address nor a phone number to get a refund from my local electronics store either, but I do believe they should be available.

demosthanos 3mo ago
Apple is the analog to the local electronics store. They're the ones with the direct relationship with you, they're the ones you paid, they took a 30% cut off the app developer's top line explicitly under the pretext that they handle the whole store arrangement. And sure enough, they are in fact the ones who can issue a refund if you need one. The developer cannot. By design.
- Telaneo 3mo ago
  > Apple is the analog to the local electronics store. They're the ones with the direct relationship with you, they're the ones you paid, they took a 30% cut off the app developer's top line explicitly under the pretext that they handle the whole store arrangement. Yet I can also ask Dell for a refund despite buying my Dell at my local electronics store. Both should be reachable and both should be able to give me a refund if my item is broken. > And sure enough, they are in fact the ones who can issue a refund if you need one. The developer cannot. By design. And Apple should fix that.
  - demosthanos 3mo ago
    No, Dell will not give you a refund for something purchased at a retailer. For general returns and refunds, the retailer is on the hook because they're the ones who actually took your money. What Dell will do is repair or replace a computer that is still under warranty. They won't refund.
    - Telaneo 3mo ago
      > No, Dell will not give you a refund for something purchased at a retailer. They're legally required to.[1] [1] https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/2002-06-21-34/KAPITTEL_5#KAPITTEL_5 https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/2002-06-21-34/KAPITTEL_5... Section 35 Edit: Forgot there's an English version.
      - demosthanos 3mo ago
        Fair enough, I didn't realize Norwegian law had this provision. EU-wide and US law do not, so this is pretty specific to the Nordic countries from what I can tell.
        Telaneo 3mo ago
        The joys of consumer protection. This one is fairly old (2002), and doesn't have any origin in any EU law, although I would have though that the EU had something roughly equivalent by now, and if they don't, they really should.
      - murderfs 3mo ago
        I don't understand how this functions in practice: if business A sells a widget to reseller B who sells it to reseller C who sells it to the customer, there's multiple layers of markup. How can the original manufacturer be expected to refund the purchase price? Reading the law, it does not say that the consumer is entitled to a refund.
        Telaneo 3mo ago