6 ms·

Why Apple Got a "Made in U.S.A." Bug

37 points by shrig94 14y ago

Alaskan005 14y ago
Tim Cook thinks different though ;). He also re-instated the charity giving. Either way, even if Apple makes a few dollars less on each Mac the publicity alone is worth it. "Look, we make things in USA." Remember BP's, Beyond Petroleum? --- edited to add "less"
- mtgx 14y ago
  As long as people don't think iPhones and iPads will be made in US, because that would just be misleading. I assume most of the components will still be made abroad anyway, and just the assembly in US, which again makes it kind of misleading to say it's "made in US", if 90% of it is made elsewhere.
  - agravier 14y ago
    Globalization distributes the chains of production enough that most "made in X" statements just mean "assembled in X."
    - nathos 14y ago
      Indeed. As Tim Cook stated in the interview w/ Brian Williams, even the "made in China" iPhone has an American-made System-on-a-Chip and Gorilla Glass.
    - sixothree 14y ago
      Maybe Apple's use of the label 'Assembled in ...' and not 'Made in ...' had this possibility in mind.
- onetwothreefour 14y ago
  It's pretty naive to assume that Apple is going to eat the added costs of US manufacturing instead of just building it into the price, ala Nexus Q. They've probably got enough good will out of all the misleading coverage to cancel out the $100M they're planning to spend already.
adamesque 14y ago
The New York Times quoted Rob Enderle? Whoa.
- derleth 14y ago
  > Groklaw is an Anti-SCO FUD propaganda site http://web.archive.org/web/20040928043900/http://pl.caldera.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.html http://web.archive.org/web/20040928043900/http://pl.caldera.... Earlier things in the speech were said obviously tongue-in-cheek but the title of the talk that quote is from is "Free Software and the Idiots who Buy It" and it was the keynote at SCO Forum August 3, 2004. Just in case anyone else's memory was as rusty as mine is.
Geee 14y ago
Maybe Apple actually plans to assemble iTVs in USA; it would probably make the most sense. Unit sizes are huge, most customers are domestic, keeping it more under the wraps etc...
- zevyoura 14y ago
  Tim Cook said it would be one of the Mac lines.
  - aaronbrethorst 14y ago
    I'd put a wager on it being the 2013 refresh of the Mac Pro.
    - k-mcgrady 14y ago
      That makes sense. It would be a good way to get started considering the relatively low demand for Mac Pro's they could presumably assemble all of them in the USA (therefore all customers get the same product).
37prime 14y ago
The post losts all credibility as soon as the quote from Rob Enderle showed up.
- panacea 14y ago
  Yep. Closed the tab when I got to that.
beloch 14y ago
It isn't necessarily labor costs that will likely keep at least some component manufacturing overseas. Semiconductor fabrication involves a lot of nasty chemicals and byproducts. Fab plants are substantially cheaper to run in countries with lax worker safety and environmental standards.
ck2 14y ago
Shouldn't we all wait and see what they actually do vs. marketing hype? If they only make a dozen jobs for supervisors and the rest is machine automation, does that count? What if it's in a US territory to escape minimum wages and standard benefits? Does that count? What if no-one works more than 29 hours a week to dump the health costs on taxpayers instead of Apple? Does that count? What if all the machines, tools, parts, building materials used in the facility were made outside the USA? Does that count?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - ck2 14y ago
    So the machines they use in China are made in the USA? Or are those machines and the installers going to come from China? Remember there doesn't have to be a single human-being involved to still get the "made in the USA" marketing label, in fact like "organic" there is zero enforcement or any real regulation. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product's "last substantial transformation" should have occurred in the U.S.A That's pretty much the only requirement.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - xal 14y ago
      I know this is a rhetorical question but the vast majority of these machines are made in Germany.
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  What if it's in a US territory to escape minimum wages and standard benefits? Does that count? The minimum wage in all US territories was recently raised to the US minimum wage in increments of $0.50/year, starting in 2007. It's one of those rare cases where a min wage increase had any effect at all - usually min wage increases go from WAY below market to simply below market.
meaty 14y ago
Either labour costs are cheaper (the Chinese are starting to want real money vs many unemployed people in the us) or they're getting a tax break somewhere or a subsidy.
- camus 14y ago
  doesnt matter how much Chinese want , china is an infinite source of cheap labour. And you forget something, you cant freely work where you want in China. You cant just quit your job and find another one, you need an authorisation to do so. Some forget that China is still a centralized communist country.Their economy is still highly planified and there is no difference between government and "private" sector. they are the same entity.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    > Some forget that China is still a centralized communist country. China was never a centralized communist country - it was a country that attempted to create a state-capitalist economy, to varying degrees of success over the years. This isn't a matter of quibbling over terminology; it's a rather important distinction to be aware of for anybody who wants to understand modern China's economic history.
xradionut 14y ago
There probably is a political motive that involves government or military contracts here. Or an political/economic motive if Apple wants to repatriate money back into the US.
brudgers 14y ago
This article shows what Apple hopes to gain from the announcement that they will be manufacturing in the U.S. - articles about Apple planning to manufacture in the U.S. I remember Walmart's "Buy American" campaign in the late 80's early 90's. Ten to fifteen years later it still shaped perceptions about the company's merchandise long after it had gone to a global logistics chain. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Cook has made a similar observation. Apple's investment is trivial. $100,000,000 is still small business in American manufacturing. It's about the cost of a new moderately sized High School.
- jackalope 14y ago
  Exactly. Isn't it a little suspicious that it's for a product segment that's waning in popularity and profitability? I won't be surprised if in three years the line is killed and the factory is closed.
DigitalTurk 14y ago
You know, as a European who used to live in China I have to say that those 'Made in the USA' slogans are really off-putting for me. To me it almost reads like 'More expensive because we're jingoists'. Whatever happened to globalization? Has it become hip to be 'protectionist' now the economy isn't doing so well? This really does bug me because the companies that use the 'Made in the USA' tagline otherwise tend to be cool (it's all over Kickstarter).
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  I think you're missing the point. Domestic production is very important if we want to keep our living standards while accounting for the ecological costs of our consumerism. 'Made in the USA' is just a label to sell American consumers on, but the reasonings are deeper than jingoism. Sooner or later our greenhouse gas output is going to bite us in the ass and for that we need new solutions. For the Chinese economy I'm not concerned, since they're growing into a huge domestic market themselves. Luckily they also seem to understand the ecological dangers, thus they're beginning to invest quite heavily in clean energy. P.S. I'm European. I have much more hope for the USA to turn around their economy however. Long term Europe is in a much tougher position to compete in the new global economy, mostly because we have no silicon valley and we have hardly any top tier universities that churn out massive amounts of startups. On the other hand what's very worrysome about the US are the exploding cost for academic degrees - that's gonna hurt really soon when a whole generation of high potential people (a) aren't able to get a degree or (b) get a degree but can't spend any money on consumer products because of their loans. However - this as well as medical care is fixable in mid term. Not having a culture of innovation is much tougher.
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    ...but the reasonings are deeper than jingoism. Could you explain the reasoning? Your post is very unclear unclear what greenhouse gas output has to do with American manufacturing.
    - DeepDuh 14y ago
Tloewald 14y ago
Enderle? Sigh. I wonder if the writer realizes that Steve Jobs started out using robot factories (with NeXT) and then went to China. Its cheaper to hire and fire poor people than robots. My guess is that Apple plans to assemble the most expensive macs (especially Bro models) in the US. I'm hopingthis includes the Mac Pro replacement.

37 points by shrig94 14y ago

Tim Cook thinks different though ;). He also re-instated the charity giving. Either way, even if Apple makes a few dollars less on each Mac the publicity alone is worth it. "Look, we make things in USA." Remember BP's, Beyond Petroleum? --- edited to add "less"

mtgx 14y ago
As long as people don't think iPhones and iPads will be made in US, because that would just be misleading. I assume most of the components will still be made abroad anyway, and just the assembly in US, which again makes it kind of misleading to say it's "made in US", if 90% of it is made elsewhere.
- agravier 14y ago
  Globalization distributes the chains of production enough that most "made in X" statements just mean "assembled in X."
  - nathos 14y ago
    Indeed. As Tim Cook stated in the interview w/ Brian Williams, even the "made in China" iPhone has an American-made System-on-a-Chip and Gorilla Glass.
  - sixothree 14y ago
    Maybe Apple's use of the label 'Assembled in ...' and not 'Made in ...' had this possibility in mind.
onetwothreefour 14y ago
It's pretty naive to assume that Apple is going to eat the added costs of US manufacturing instead of just building it into the price, ala Nexus Q. They've probably got enough good will out of all the misleading coverage to cancel out the $100M they're planning to spend already.

adamesque 14y ago

The New York Times quoted Rob Enderle? Whoa.

derleth 14y ago
> Groklaw is an Anti-SCO FUD propaganda site http://web.archive.org/web/20040928043900/http://pl.caldera.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.html http://web.archive.org/web/20040928043900/http://pl.caldera.... Earlier things in the speech were said obviously tongue-in-cheek but the title of the talk that quote is from is "Free Software and the Idiots who Buy It" and it was the keynote at SCO Forum August 3, 2004. Just in case anyone else's memory was as rusty as mine is.

Geee 14y ago

Maybe Apple actually plans to assemble iTVs in USA; it would probably make the most sense. Unit sizes are huge, most customers are domestic, keeping it more under the wraps etc...

zevyoura 14y ago
Tim Cook said it would be one of the Mac lines.
- aaronbrethorst 14y ago
  I'd put a wager on it being the 2013 refresh of the Mac Pro.
  - k-mcgrady 14y ago
    That makes sense. It would be a good way to get started considering the relatively low demand for Mac Pro's they could presumably assemble all of them in the USA (therefore all customers get the same product).

37prime 14y ago

The post losts all credibility as soon as the quote from Rob Enderle showed up.

panacea 14y ago
Yep. Closed the tab when I got to that.

beloch 14y ago

It isn't necessarily labor costs that will likely keep at least some component manufacturing overseas. Semiconductor fabrication involves a lot of nasty chemicals and byproducts. Fab plants are substantially cheaper to run in countries with lax worker safety and environmental standards.

ck2 14y ago

Shouldn't we all wait and see what they actually do vs. marketing hype? If they only make a dozen jobs for supervisors and the rest is machine automation, does that count? What if it's in a US territory to escape minimum wages and standard benefits? Does that count? What if no-one works more than 29 hours a week to dump the health costs on taxpayers instead of Apple? Does that count? What if all the machines, tools, parts, building materials used in the facility were made outside the USA? Does that count?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- ck2 14y ago
  So the machines they use in China are made in the USA? Or are those machines and the installers going to come from China? Remember there doesn't have to be a single human-being involved to still get the "made in the USA" marketing label, in fact like "organic" there is zero enforcement or any real regulation. For the "assembly" claim to be valid, the product's "last substantial transformation" should have occurred in the U.S.A That's pretty much the only requirement.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - xal 14y ago
    I know this is a rhetorical question but the vast majority of these machines are made in Germany.
yummyfajitas 14y ago
What if it's in a US territory to escape minimum wages and standard benefits? Does that count? The minimum wage in all US territories was recently raised to the US minimum wage in increments of $0.50/year, starting in 2007. It's one of those rare cases where a min wage increase had any effect at all - usually min wage increases go from WAY below market to simply below market.

meaty 14y ago

Either labour costs are cheaper (the Chinese are starting to want real money vs many unemployed people in the us) or they're getting a tax break somewhere or a subsidy.

camus 14y ago
doesnt matter how much Chinese want , china is an infinite source of cheap labour. And you forget something, you cant freely work where you want in China. You cant just quit your job and find another one, you need an authorisation to do so. Some forget that China is still a centralized communist country.Their economy is still highly planified and there is no difference between government and "private" sector. they are the same entity.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > Some forget that China is still a centralized communist country. China was never a centralized communist country - it was a country that attempted to create a state-capitalist economy, to varying degrees of success over the years. This isn't a matter of quibbling over terminology; it's a rather important distinction to be aware of for anybody who wants to understand modern China's economic history.

xradionut 14y ago

There probably is a political motive that involves government or military contracts here. Or an political/economic motive if Apple wants to repatriate money back into the US.

brudgers 14y ago

This article shows what Apple hopes to gain from the announcement that they will be manufacturing in the U.S. - articles about Apple planning to manufacture in the U.S. I remember Walmart's "Buy American" campaign in the late 80's early 90's. Ten to fifteen years later it still shaped perceptions about the company's merchandise long after it had gone to a global logistics chain. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Cook has made a similar observation. Apple's investment is trivial. $100,000,000 is still small business in American manufacturing. It's about the cost of a new moderately sized High School.

jackalope 14y ago
Exactly. Isn't it a little suspicious that it's for a product segment that's waning in popularity and profitability? I won't be surprised if in three years the line is killed and the factory is closed.

DigitalTurk 14y ago

You know, as a European who used to live in China I have to say that those 'Made in the USA' slogans are really off-putting for me. To me it almost reads like 'More expensive because we're jingoists'. Whatever happened to globalization? Has it become hip to be 'protectionist' now the economy isn't doing so well? This really does bug me because the companies that use the 'Made in the USA' tagline otherwise tend to be cool (it's all over Kickstarter).

DeepDuh 14y ago
I think you're missing the point. Domestic production is very important if we want to keep our living standards while accounting for the ecological costs of our consumerism. 'Made in the USA' is just a label to sell American consumers on, but the reasonings are deeper than jingoism. Sooner or later our greenhouse gas output is going to bite us in the ass and for that we need new solutions. For the Chinese economy I'm not concerned, since they're growing into a huge domestic market themselves. Luckily they also seem to understand the ecological dangers, thus they're beginning to invest quite heavily in clean energy. P.S. I'm European. I have much more hope for the USA to turn around their economy however. Long term Europe is in a much tougher position to compete in the new global economy, mostly because we have no silicon valley and we have hardly any top tier universities that churn out massive amounts of startups. On the other hand what's very worrysome about the US are the exploding cost for academic degrees - that's gonna hurt really soon when a whole generation of high potential people (a) aren't able to get a degree or (b) get a degree but can't spend any money on consumer products because of their loans. However - this as well as medical care is fixable in mid term. Not having a culture of innovation is much tougher.
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  ...but the reasonings are deeper than jingoism. Could you explain the reasoning? Your post is very unclear unclear what greenhouse gas output has to do with American manufacturing.
  - DeepDuh 14y ago

Tloewald 14y ago

Enderle? Sigh. I wonder if the writer realizes that Steve Jobs started out using robot factories (with NeXT) and then went to China. Its cheaper to hire and fire poor people than robots. My guess is that Apple plans to assemble the most expensive macs (especially Bro models) in the US. I'm hopingthis includes the Mac Pro replacement.