5 ms·

Worth noting that this is a push from the CDU who are leading the government, but their coalition partner the SPD has already come out pretty strongly against t

Worth noting that this is a push from the CDU who are leading the government, but their coalition partner the SPD has already come out pretty strongly against this, so it's rather unclear if this would ever actually go through (not to mention challenges from constitutional courts). The CDU cannot unilaterally push through legislation without the SPD. The SPD has rolled over for the CDU in the past on things, but they've also blocked things they thought were important enough to block, so it's really anyone's guess if this go through (I personally wouldn't bet on it, but I'm sure a bunch of dour pessimists will come explain to me that it's a foregone conclusion and I'm naive).

igl 3mo ago
"SPD will block this" is contradicted by SPD already voting for the identical Berlin version weeks ago.
- chrystalkey 3mo ago
  Not identical but similar and state vs federal level, might as well be different parties. Thats not to say I am not Just as worried as you
  - h4x0rr 3mo ago
    SPD has no integrity either way
    - ffsm8 3mo ago
      Let's just remember that spd unironically thought the CumEx expert Scholz should be given the highest position in the government. After that debacle I honestly cannot understand how anyone with even an iota of integrity can vote for them again and think any of them would ever act in the interests of their people
      - lukan 3mo ago
        "After that debacle I honestly cannot understand how anyone with even an iota of integrity can vote for them again" Well, there is actually a very old song about them, here in a new version (that is also already quite old by now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vFL0QWxugI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vFL0QWxugI But the answer is probably lack of real alternatives.
        realityking 3mo ago
        The slogan "Wer hat uns verraten? – Sozialdemokraten!" has a rather long history. Coined by communist during the 1918 November Revolution, it referenced the social democrats at least tentative support of the suppression of the communist revolution and the murder of Karl Liebknecht und Rosa Luxemburg. During Weimar times it was popular with both right-wing and left-wing forces. The Nazis - who sent social democrats to the concentration camps - also used it in their propaganda. As much as I disagree with many of the things today's social democrats say and do, it's worth remembering that this slogan was popularized and predominantly used by anti-democratic forces. It's not a particularly fair thing to throw around carelessly.
rob74 3mo ago
First phrase in the article: "Shortly before the German parliament's summer recess, lawmakers approved a whole series of reforms." Sounds like "done and dusted" to me. The Bundesrat (the second chamber of the parliament) also approved, er... something, but it's not clear to me if it's just the health measures or also the rest. What's left is for the Bundespräsident to sign it, but that's a formality. And yes, no idea why the SPD is so on board with this - some measures, like having to provide a medical certificate from the first day of an illness (which in practice means you have to go see a doctor personally on the first day of sickness), are definitely not going to increase the dismal approval ratings of this government. So, for example, if you're prone to migraines, until now you would have simply called in sick for a day, now you have to drag yourself to the doctor, only for them to tell you (after potentially hours of waiting) "oh, you do look very pale and sickly today, you probably do have a migraine, here's the certificate. I assume you already took one or several headache pills? Now please, go home and rest."?!
- eigenspace 3mo ago
  This hasn't been voted on in the Bundesttag yet, let alone the Bundesrat or Bundespräsident.
  - rob74 3mo ago
    Ok, so what did they actually approve? Is this just a "declaration of intent", and the actual laws will follow later?! The article clearly says "lawmakers approved a whole series of reforms" - I was also surprised that this worked so quickly, but what do I know...
    - eigenspace 3mo ago
      I think the article just has poor wording. They went through a raft of different, unrelated reforms already, and this is part of the next set the CDUs want to get through.
      - master-lincoln 3mo ago
raxxorraxor 3mo ago
Their coalition partner is only publicly against it if there is little chance this criticism has any practical political effect. The SPD as a party is very much in favour of more or less all surveillance laws for citizens, and the contrary for public officials. Sometimes they pretend otherwise, but only if the above rule applies. Not a dependent partner if you want to preserve freedoms for transparency and against surveillance.

igl 3mo ago

"SPD will block this" is contradicted by SPD already voting for the identical Berlin version weeks ago.

chrystalkey 3mo ago
Not identical but similar and state vs federal level, might as well be different parties. Thats not to say I am not Just as worried as you
- h4x0rr 3mo ago
  SPD has no integrity either way
  - ffsm8 3mo ago
    Let's just remember that spd unironically thought the CumEx expert Scholz should be given the highest position in the government. After that debacle I honestly cannot understand how anyone with even an iota of integrity can vote for them again and think any of them would ever act in the interests of their people
    - lukan 3mo ago
      "After that debacle I honestly cannot understand how anyone with even an iota of integrity can vote for them again" Well, there is actually a very old song about them, here in a new version (that is also already quite old by now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vFL0QWxugI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vFL0QWxugI But the answer is probably lack of real alternatives.
      - realityking 3mo ago
        The slogan "Wer hat uns verraten? – Sozialdemokraten!" has a rather long history. Coined by communist during the 1918 November Revolution, it referenced the social democrats at least tentative support of the suppression of the communist revolution and the murder of Karl Liebknecht und Rosa Luxemburg. During Weimar times it was popular with both right-wing and left-wing forces. The Nazis - who sent social democrats to the concentration camps - also used it in their propaganda. As much as I disagree with many of the things today's social democrats say and do, it's worth remembering that this slogan was popularized and predominantly used by anti-democratic forces. It's not a particularly fair thing to throw around carelessly.

rob74 3mo ago

First phrase in the article: "Shortly before the German parliament's summer recess, lawmakers approved a whole series of reforms." Sounds like "done and dusted" to me. The Bundesrat (the second chamber of the parliament) also approved, er... something, but it's not clear to me if it's just the health measures or also the rest. What's left is for the Bundespräsident to sign it, but that's a formality. And yes, no idea why the SPD is so on board with this - some measures, like having to provide a medical certificate from the first day of an illness (which in practice means you have to go see a doctor personally on the first day of sickness), are definitely not going to increase the dismal approval ratings of this government. So, for example, if you're prone to migraines, until now you would have simply called in sick for a day, now you have to drag yourself to the doctor, only for them to tell you (after potentially hours of waiting) "oh, you do look very pale and sickly today, you probably do have a migraine, here's the certificate. I assume you already took one or several headache pills? Now please, go home and rest."?!

eigenspace 3mo ago
This hasn't been voted on in the Bundesttag yet, let alone the Bundesrat or Bundespräsident.
- rob74 3mo ago
  Ok, so what did they actually approve? Is this just a "declaration of intent", and the actual laws will follow later?! The article clearly says "lawmakers approved a whole series of reforms" - I was also surprised that this worked so quickly, but what do I know...
  - eigenspace 3mo ago
    I think the article just has poor wording. They went through a raft of different, unrelated reforms already, and this is part of the next set the CDUs want to get through.
    - master-lincoln 3mo ago

raxxorraxor 3mo ago

Their coalition partner is only publicly against it if there is little chance this criticism has any practical political effect. The SPD as a party is very much in favour of more or less all surveillance laws for citizens, and the contrary for public officials. Sometimes they pretend otherwise, but only if the above rule applies. Not a dependent partner if you want to preserve freedoms for transparency and against surveillance.