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> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as

> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black) What about we keep the drones to reduce crime and just selectively never investigate black suspects? >Second, if you're being followed by a police car, you know the police car is there. If you're being followed by a drone, you have no idea the drone is there. There are such things as plain-clothed police officers. Not that police officers have to announce their presence to you when they are driving on a public road anyways. > Third, I can pull over and ask the cop why they're following me, or (more likely) just let them pass. A drone is just going to loiter there, waiting for me to commit whatever crime they think I'm committing. If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? You say slippery slope when what I think you really mean is that it shifts the overton window of what is and isn't acceptable. That is a valid concern, but unless the police are allowed to fly drones in places where gen pop aren't allowed to, they aren't getting any special privileges from their position so I thin the point is moot. Slippery slope imo only starts when the police get NEW privileges.

nozzlegear 3mo ago
> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we should both be fighting them and holding them accountable wherever and whenever they step over the line (which, I'm sure you're aware, is constantly). Given the option and an inch, the police would establish a surveillance panopticon, all in the name of "safety." > That is a valid concern, but unless the police are allowed to fly drones in places where gen pop aren't allowed to, they aren't getting any special privileges from their position so I thin the point is moot. The police do, literally, have special drone privileges. They get access to special, high-powered surveillance drones that the public does not get. They get training to use these drones. They get the tacit permission of our governments to use these drones in their pursuit of us, to record video of us going about our daily lives, to survey us listening to music on our rooftops, or driving with our friends, or living in our apartments. Go fly a drone outside of a police officer's house and you'll end up dead or in jail. Meanwhile, the police themselves can fly a drone outside your window, or use drones to stalk you if you're a woman, and people like some of the commenters in this thread will lay down their lives to defend them from public criticism.
- Neil44 2mo ago
  In terms of photography there's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Maybe in some countries that's different but that's how it is here. If you take a picture in public you don't need the consent of everyone in the background. So the police aren't doing anything that joe bloggs couldn't do. Personally, I feel the police keep me safe. 99 times out of 100 when there's some kind of shitty headline about police there turns out to be a lot of missing information from the story. I've been pulled over plenty when I was younger and had other interactions and have always been dealt with reasonably. My only complaint about the police is that there isn't more of them. So I guess we're going to disagree on this issue.
  - malfist 2mo ago
    How are you defining public? When a drone flies over my backyard and records me naked in my hot tub, is that public now? Mind you that scenario is explicitly forbidden by law, the drones are only supposed to record at the scene but the police are illegally recording for the entire flight. Should the police be allowed to break the law when they feel like it? Or should they be held to the same (or higher) standard as the general population because of the extra authority we give them
    - Neil44 2mo ago
      That's true about the hot tub. We already have helicopters but I can appreciate there's room for the drones to be more pervasive because of their lower cost. Holding police to standards isn't easy. We ask people to go out and pull long shifts, to react in complex and life and death situations both for themselves and for the public in a split second, should we hold them to a high standard? yes, should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes.
      - malfist 2mo ago
        > should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes I disagree. Those we empower to take life must be held to the highest possible standard. After all, there is no returning from that path once it's taken.
malfist 2mo ago
Please explain how drones reduce crime?

nozzlegear 3mo ago

> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we should both be fighting them and holding them accountable wherever and whenever they step over the line (which, I'm sure you're aware, is constantly). Given the option and an inch, the police would establish a surveillance panopticon, all in the name of "safety." > That is a valid concern, but unless the police are allowed to fly drones in places where gen pop aren't allowed to, they aren't getting any special privileges from their position so I thin the point is moot. The police do, literally, have special drone privileges. They get access to special, high-powered surveillance drones that the public does not get. They get training to use these drones. They get the tacit permission of our governments to use these drones in their pursuit of us, to record video of us going about our daily lives, to survey us listening to music on our rooftops, or driving with our friends, or living in our apartments. Go fly a drone outside of a police officer's house and you'll end up dead or in jail. Meanwhile, the police themselves can fly a drone outside your window, or use drones to stalk you if you're a woman, and people like some of the commenters in this thread will lay down their lives to defend them from public criticism.

Neil44 2mo ago
In terms of photography there's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Maybe in some countries that's different but that's how it is here. If you take a picture in public you don't need the consent of everyone in the background. So the police aren't doing anything that joe bloggs couldn't do. Personally, I feel the police keep me safe. 99 times out of 100 when there's some kind of shitty headline about police there turns out to be a lot of missing information from the story. I've been pulled over plenty when I was younger and had other interactions and have always been dealt with reasonably. My only complaint about the police is that there isn't more of them. So I guess we're going to disagree on this issue.
- malfist 2mo ago
  How are you defining public? When a drone flies over my backyard and records me naked in my hot tub, is that public now? Mind you that scenario is explicitly forbidden by law, the drones are only supposed to record at the scene but the police are illegally recording for the entire flight. Should the police be allowed to break the law when they feel like it? Or should they be held to the same (or higher) standard as the general population because of the extra authority we give them
  - Neil44 2mo ago
    That's true about the hot tub. We already have helicopters but I can appreciate there's room for the drones to be more pervasive because of their lower cost. Holding police to standards isn't easy. We ask people to go out and pull long shifts, to react in complex and life and death situations both for themselves and for the public in a split second, should we hold them to a high standard? yes, should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes.
    - malfist 2mo ago
      > should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes I disagree. Those we empower to take life must be held to the highest possible standard. After all, there is no returning from that path once it's taken.

malfist 2mo ago

Please explain how drones reduce crime?