4 ms·

Apple's rumored M7 Ultra targets 1.5TB and Blackwell-class AI performance

26 points by rbanffy 4mo ago

gnabgib 4mo ago
Original source (8 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48882968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48882968
rbanffy 4mo ago
The CPU/NPU/GPU part is probably coming, but the 1.5TB of RAM might be delayed a bit. More interesting footnotes are the server chips: is the MacPro making a comeback?
- lbourdages 4mo ago
  Maybe they are just for internal use? I doubt Apple is going back on the server market, and given how little they have invested in the Mac Pro, I doubt they are going to make a new version. There is little advantage compared to the Mac Studio for most users. External GPU support would change that, but it doesn't seem to be what they want.
  - rbanffy 4mo ago
    Expandable machines are attractive when the future is uncertain. I imagine a server chip would have abundant DDR6 and PCIe lanes. Oddly enough I’m now buying my PCs with all memory slots occupied because of bandwidth. I can still change the sticks for higher capacity, but expansion is a lot less convenient than when memory bandwidth wasn’t something more desirable than raw CPU performance. I’m not sure if I can measure IPC and cache misse latencies on my machines, but I’m sure latencies are pushing IPC down.
- eigenspace 4mo ago
  Really just depends on what the market looks like in a year or two. If things stay on the current trajectory, then yeah, they won't sell this. If the AI market gets spooked and sells off, it might be available. Whether or not this thing is commercially available though, they basically have no choice but to at least keep up the R&D spend, or they'll be even further behind once RAM availability eventually eases up.
segmondy 4mo ago
sure, i'll believe it when i see it. all i see from the article is a marketing campaign for folks to buy their stock. we don't even have the m5 we wanted, and we are talking about m7 and m8s?
- eigenspace 4mo ago
  I mean, yeah sure, we should wait and see what actually comes out, but I'm not sure I really see much reason to be skeptical. Blackwell came out in 2024 on n4p. This article is claiming that Apple hopes to get into the same ballpark of performance as a Blackwell GPU with an M7 Ultra, which at the absolute earliest would release in 2027, but more likely 2028 or 2029, and would consist of two absolutely massive M7 Max GPUs stapled together, for a total die area bigger than a 5090, but on a smaller more advanced node. Honestly, if they can't release something that big by 2028 that's at least competitive with a 5080, it'd be extremely embarrassing for them.
  - datakan 4mo ago
    I don't think they care much about GPU's. They never did in the past, thats why you dont get nVidia in a Mac. Apple was happy with Intel graphics until they went M series chips. They just never cared about gaming at all. For AI purposes that may change but I doubt it.
  - segmondy 4mo ago
    I'm hoping they are right. I was saving for M5 Ultra Pro 512gb or 768gb and feel so screwed. Could have gotten an M3 512gb or a genoa DDR5 system with blackwell pro 6000 and the prices have climbed. Apple doesn't have control of the supply chain, for the first time they are on the same level with other vendors, so I'm skeptical they can do what they hope to ... I'm still going to keep saving for this M7 ...
- SanDiegoSun 4mo ago
  Do you really think tech gossip on capability pointing to advancements >2 years out is driving stocks? I'm sure analysts will take note, but this is just noise in a sea of sound.
nozzlegear 4mo ago
"Blackwell-class AI" sounds like one of those cool sounding nonsense terms out of a military sci-fi book.
- KolibriFly 4mo ago
  Yeah, that is pretty funny considering Blackwell isn't just a chip but a whole ecosystem with a fifth-gen interconnect and huge cooling racks...
bob1029 4mo ago
[dead]
eigenspace 4mo ago
It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? Experience from mobile scaling to desktop differently than CPU experience?
- master_crab 4mo ago
  The M-series are ARM chips based on the A series from the iPhones. Therefore Apple had ten years of chip design (plus the prior decades of ARM history) to rely on. The GPUs and modems were a much more recent effort. (My take. happy to be corrected by someone with chip design experience who can comment.)
  - eigenspace 4mo ago
    The iPhones had GPUs too. As far as I'm aware, the GPU design in the M-series chips are directly descended from the iPhone GPU in the exact same way the CPU is.
    - chocochunks 4mo ago
      Prior to the A11 chip they used PowerVR designed GPUs. They weren't done in house.
      - eigenspace 4mo ago
        Ah I see, good to know.
      - rangestransform 4mo ago
        Based on Alyssa Rosenzweig’s reverse engineering, the current GPUs are still descended from PowerVR IP
  - 4mo ago
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
KolibriFly 4mo ago
[dead]

26 points by rbanffy 4mo ago

Original source (8 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48882968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48882968

The CPU/NPU/GPU part is probably coming, but the 1.5TB of RAM might be delayed a bit. More interesting footnotes are the server chips: is the MacPro making a comeback?

lbourdages 4mo ago
Maybe they are just for internal use? I doubt Apple is going back on the server market, and given how little they have invested in the Mac Pro, I doubt they are going to make a new version. There is little advantage compared to the Mac Studio for most users. External GPU support would change that, but it doesn't seem to be what they want.
- rbanffy 4mo ago
  Expandable machines are attractive when the future is uncertain. I imagine a server chip would have abundant DDR6 and PCIe lanes. Oddly enough I’m now buying my PCs with all memory slots occupied because of bandwidth. I can still change the sticks for higher capacity, but expansion is a lot less convenient than when memory bandwidth wasn’t something more desirable than raw CPU performance. I’m not sure if I can measure IPC and cache misse latencies on my machines, but I’m sure latencies are pushing IPC down.
eigenspace 4mo ago
Really just depends on what the market looks like in a year or two. If things stay on the current trajectory, then yeah, they won't sell this. If the AI market gets spooked and sells off, it might be available. Whether or not this thing is commercially available though, they basically have no choice but to at least keep up the R&D spend, or they'll be even further behind once RAM availability eventually eases up.

segmondy 4mo ago

sure, i'll believe it when i see it. all i see from the article is a marketing campaign for folks to buy their stock. we don't even have the m5 we wanted, and we are talking about m7 and m8s?

eigenspace 4mo ago
I mean, yeah sure, we should wait and see what actually comes out, but I'm not sure I really see much reason to be skeptical. Blackwell came out in 2024 on n4p. This article is claiming that Apple hopes to get into the same ballpark of performance as a Blackwell GPU with an M7 Ultra, which at the absolute earliest would release in 2027, but more likely 2028 or 2029, and would consist of two absolutely massive M7 Max GPUs stapled together, for a total die area bigger than a 5090, but on a smaller more advanced node. Honestly, if they can't release something that big by 2028 that's at least competitive with a 5080, it'd be extremely embarrassing for them.
- datakan 4mo ago
  I don't think they care much about GPU's. They never did in the past, thats why you dont get nVidia in a Mac. Apple was happy with Intel graphics until they went M series chips. They just never cared about gaming at all. For AI purposes that may change but I doubt it.
- segmondy 4mo ago
  I'm hoping they are right. I was saving for M5 Ultra Pro 512gb or 768gb and feel so screwed. Could have gotten an M3 512gb or a genoa DDR5 system with blackwell pro 6000 and the prices have climbed. Apple doesn't have control of the supply chain, for the first time they are on the same level with other vendors, so I'm skeptical they can do what they hope to ... I'm still going to keep saving for this M7 ...
SanDiegoSun 4mo ago
Do you really think tech gossip on capability pointing to advancements >2 years out is driving stocks? I'm sure analysts will take note, but this is just noise in a sea of sound.

nozzlegear 4mo ago

"Blackwell-class AI" sounds like one of those cool sounding nonsense terms out of a military sci-fi book.

KolibriFly 4mo ago
Yeah, that is pretty funny considering Blackwell isn't just a chip but a whole ecosystem with a fifth-gen interconnect and huge cooling racks...

bob1029 4mo ago

[dead]

eigenspace 4mo ago

It's pretty interesting that Apple was so quick to get to industry-leading status on their CPUs, but their GPUs are still in a state where they won't match Nvidia's GPUs from 2024 until at least next year, and will need a significantly bigger chip to do so. Similar story with Qualcomm but to a lesser degree (both on the CPU and GPU side). I wonder why that is. Lack of priority? Legitimately harder problem to solve? Experience from mobile scaling to desktop differently than CPU experience?

master_crab 4mo ago
The M-series are ARM chips based on the A series from the iPhones. Therefore Apple had ten years of chip design (plus the prior decades of ARM history) to rely on. The GPUs and modems were a much more recent effort. (My take. happy to be corrected by someone with chip design experience who can comment.)
- eigenspace 4mo ago
  The iPhones had GPUs too. As far as I'm aware, the GPU design in the M-series chips are directly descended from the iPhone GPU in the exact same way the CPU is.
  - chocochunks 4mo ago
    Prior to the A11 chip they used PowerVR designed GPUs. They weren't done in house.
    - eigenspace 4mo ago
      Ah I see, good to know.
    - rangestransform 4mo ago
      Based on Alyssa Rosenzweig’s reverse engineering, the current GPUs are still descended from PowerVR IP
- 4mo ago

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

KolibriFly 4mo ago

[dead]