5 ms·

Consoles just don't make sense in any modern context. It's profoundly wasteful to have an edge device sitting in your living room, unused for 99% of the time th

Consoles just don't make sense in any modern context. It's profoundly wasteful to have an edge device sitting in your living room, unused for 99% of the time that can only do an incredibly small subset of what a gaming computer can Every PS5 in existence is destined to become e-waste Not to mention how bad the developer and porting experience is compared to PC/Steam Machine

nubinetwork 3mo ago
> Every PS5 in existence is destined to become e-waste So is your pc hardware, unless you expect to stay on that 9800x3d and 4090 for the next 30 years...
- silon42 3mo ago
  4090 probably won't survive, but I could see 9800x3d still being usable.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    Modern chips rarely last that long.
    - silon42 3mo ago
      Especially some overclocked Intel ones?... maybe it's time to start undervolting/underclocking from the start... (personally I buy 65W limit CPUs by default).
mrpopo 3mo ago
> Every PS5 in existence is destined to become e-waste Just like every Android device or computer in your household? Are you trying to make a point for cloud computing?
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  I can accept the waste of having a second much lower power CPU in the phone I use with me every day. But I can't justify having both a gaming pc and a playstation/xbox that's exactly the same thing with a different OS on it. They even play the same games these days. Something that weighs on me is the fact that every tech device you own is constantly devaluing as it ages, eventually becoming worthless when support ends and the servers are shut down. It makes far more sense to own the least possible and get the most use out of each one. Unlike most things you own that only devalue as they are worn out and damaged.
- charcircuit 3mo ago
  The servers in clouds get "retired" too.
otabdeveloper4 3mo ago
"Game consoles" are a niche lifestyle item for gen-X and millennials with money to waste. (Like vinyl records.) Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively.
- applfanboysbgon 3mo ago
  This is hilariously incorrect and out-of-touch. Obviously phones are #1 by a huge margin, but the console market is as large as it's ever been as gaming as a whole became genuinely mainstream, and kids absolutely still play on them. Switch at 155 million sales, PS5 at 93 million, and under-20s have plenty of experience with hand-me-downs.
  - otabdeveloper4 3mo ago
    > the console market is as large as it's ever been as gaming as a whole became genuinely mainstream Yes, like I said - lifestyle item for gen-X and millennials who have money now. > ...and kids absolutely still play on them The vast majority is kids playing their parents' console. If the market wasn't being driven by parents' demand then no modern kid would be asking to buy a console. (They can play Roblox and Brawl Stars on their iPhone/iPad.)
    - Markoff 3mo ago
      > Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively. so which one is it - nobody under 20 knows what console is for or these kids are playing their parents console? you are contradicting yourself, something something moving the goalpost...
- rvz 3mo ago
  This comment is peak HN. > Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively. Imagine saying this before GTA 6 which will release only on consoles this year. That will be the game to get the entire world on their games consoles.
yulaow 3mo ago
The thing I like about console compared to pc (which I use the most for gaming) is the total absence of cheaters except maybe a super minority. To make an example try to play a multiplayer famous fps (like battlefield6 or cod) on console and then on pc, it's not even the same experience. On pc it is basically full of aimbotters, wallhackers, nodamagers, etc every single damn game, on console you get the actual safe experience. Sadly this is one of the reasons why I play mostly only pve games on pc
brazzy 3mo ago
It makes sense as long as building hardware optimized for games is either significantly cheaper, or yields a better customer experience, than the available alternatives. To most people, a separate gaming appliance is seen as convenience, not waste.
voidUpdate 3mo ago
People want the convenience. Generally , a console "just works", whereas a PC is more likely to need some messing about to get working optimally. Console devs have one target hardware that they can target, whereas PC games could be run on a huge variety of hardware
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  Valve has essentially fixed this in most aspects. My Steam Deck is as much of a "just works" experience as the switch. In fact I think it just works even easier because it automatically syncs my saves between my gaming desktop and it so I have the same saves when I travel. Windows is a clusterfuck, but PC is larger than Windows. Anti cheat is a problem left to solve, but I think this is just a matter of time.
  - voidUpdate 3mo ago
    Valve fixed it by making a console that plays PC games, rather than making a PC
    - glimshe 3mo ago
      But that's not the same. I'm heavy PC user but I only play games on a console. The reason is simple: zero friction. I play games when I'm tired, so if I have to wait a minute for a Steam update (which happened a month ago on the rare day I wanted to play on my PC), I simply give up and go watch TV.
      - voidUpdate 3mo ago
        Console games need to update too. I don't know how the steam machine handles it, but steam downloads updates for my games in the background, so if it goes to sleep instead of doing a full power off, it might be able to keep games updated while you're not playing too
        glimshe 3mo ago
thdr 3mo ago
I always find this argument pretty weak. Most of my household appliances are unused most of the time. And I very much value the fact that they're available for me if I want to use them. Why would I somehow want to give up that autonomy for my game console just because it happens to be connected to the internet? I have gaming machines from the 80s that still work and that I still love. They're not e-waste.
dv_dt 3mo ago
That modern consoles find themselves oddly displaced is true to me also, but what is also true is that I have an Apple TV and a cable-co provided android tv box attached to my TV. Neither particularly emphasizes the gaming experience, but it seems like there is an unexplored technical space somewhere between an ARM box and a full PC that every console company but Nintendo seems afraid of. I think they need to give up on the "best Graphics" feature point and focus on some other set of values. It's one they've lost every generation to PC GPUs, and ARM connected GPU's are perfectly capable of providing a good gaming experience. Most Steam games really don't require anything close to a bleeding edge GPU. If consoles are lost, at least lost from Sony and XBox, it's because they decided not to compete in the space - there are still plenty of opportunities to explore.
ghusto 3mo ago
They make sense to many people, even if not to you. I'll take a one-function device over a general device any day. You switch it on, it does the thing, you switch it off. General purpose computers are the exception that proves the rule, in that "the thing" in their case _is_ everything. I couldn't care less about playing with randos on the internet, but am very interested in playing with people I know in the same room.

nubinetwork 3mo ago

> Every PS5 in existence is destined to become e-waste So is your pc hardware, unless you expect to stay on that 9800x3d and 4090 for the next 30 years...

silon42 3mo ago
4090 probably won't survive, but I could see 9800x3d still being usable.
- inigyou 3mo ago
  Modern chips rarely last that long.
  - silon42 3mo ago
    Especially some overclocked Intel ones?... maybe it's time to start undervolting/underclocking from the start... (personally I buy 65W limit CPUs by default).

mrpopo 3mo ago

> Every PS5 in existence is destined to become e-waste Just like every Android device or computer in your household? Are you trying to make a point for cloud computing?

Gigachad 3mo ago
I can accept the waste of having a second much lower power CPU in the phone I use with me every day. But I can't justify having both a gaming pc and a playstation/xbox that's exactly the same thing with a different OS on it. They even play the same games these days. Something that weighs on me is the fact that every tech device you own is constantly devaluing as it ages, eventually becoming worthless when support ends and the servers are shut down. It makes far more sense to own the least possible and get the most use out of each one. Unlike most things you own that only devalue as they are worn out and damaged.
charcircuit 3mo ago
The servers in clouds get "retired" too.

otabdeveloper4 3mo ago

"Game consoles" are a niche lifestyle item for gen-X and millennials with money to waste. (Like vinyl records.) Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively.

applfanboysbgon 3mo ago
This is hilariously incorrect and out-of-touch. Obviously phones are #1 by a huge margin, but the console market is as large as it's ever been as gaming as a whole became genuinely mainstream, and kids absolutely still play on them. Switch at 155 million sales, PS5 at 93 million, and under-20s have plenty of experience with hand-me-downs.
- otabdeveloper4 3mo ago
  > the console market is as large as it's ever been as gaming as a whole became genuinely mainstream Yes, like I said - lifestyle item for gen-X and millennials who have money now. > ...and kids absolutely still play on them The vast majority is kids playing their parents' console. If the market wasn't being driven by parents' demand then no modern kid would be asking to buy a console. (They can play Roblox and Brawl Stars on their iPhone/iPad.)
  - Markoff 3mo ago
    > Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively. so which one is it - nobody under 20 knows what console is for or these kids are playing their parents console? you are contradicting yourself, something something moving the goalpost...
rvz 3mo ago
This comment is peak HN. > Nobody under 20 knows what a "console" is even for, they play games on their iPhone almost exclusively. Imagine saying this before GTA 6 which will release only on consoles this year. That will be the game to get the entire world on their games consoles.

yulaow 3mo ago

The thing I like about console compared to pc (which I use the most for gaming) is the total absence of cheaters except maybe a super minority. To make an example try to play a multiplayer famous fps (like battlefield6 or cod) on console and then on pc, it's not even the same experience. On pc it is basically full of aimbotters, wallhackers, nodamagers, etc every single damn game, on console you get the actual safe experience. Sadly this is one of the reasons why I play mostly only pve games on pc

brazzy 3mo ago

It makes sense as long as building hardware optimized for games is either significantly cheaper, or yields a better customer experience, than the available alternatives. To most people, a separate gaming appliance is seen as convenience, not waste.

voidUpdate 3mo ago

People want the convenience. Generally , a console "just works", whereas a PC is more likely to need some messing about to get working optimally. Console devs have one target hardware that they can target, whereas PC games could be run on a huge variety of hardware

Gigachad 3mo ago
Valve has essentially fixed this in most aspects. My Steam Deck is as much of a "just works" experience as the switch. In fact I think it just works even easier because it automatically syncs my saves between my gaming desktop and it so I have the same saves when I travel. Windows is a clusterfuck, but PC is larger than Windows. Anti cheat is a problem left to solve, but I think this is just a matter of time.
- voidUpdate 3mo ago
  Valve fixed it by making a console that plays PC games, rather than making a PC
  - glimshe 3mo ago
    But that's not the same. I'm heavy PC user but I only play games on a console. The reason is simple: zero friction. I play games when I'm tired, so if I have to wait a minute for a Steam update (which happened a month ago on the rare day I wanted to play on my PC), I simply give up and go watch TV.
    - voidUpdate 3mo ago
      Console games need to update too. I don't know how the steam machine handles it, but steam downloads updates for my games in the background, so if it goes to sleep instead of doing a full power off, it might be able to keep games updated while you're not playing too
      - glimshe 3mo ago

thdr 3mo ago

I always find this argument pretty weak. Most of my household appliances are unused most of the time. And I very much value the fact that they're available for me if I want to use them. Why would I somehow want to give up that autonomy for my game console just because it happens to be connected to the internet? I have gaming machines from the 80s that still work and that I still love. They're not e-waste.

dv_dt 3mo ago

That modern consoles find themselves oddly displaced is true to me also, but what is also true is that I have an Apple TV and a cable-co provided android tv box attached to my TV. Neither particularly emphasizes the gaming experience, but it seems like there is an unexplored technical space somewhere between an ARM box and a full PC that every console company but Nintendo seems afraid of. I think they need to give up on the "best Graphics" feature point and focus on some other set of values. It's one they've lost every generation to PC GPUs, and ARM connected GPU's are perfectly capable of providing a good gaming experience. Most Steam games really don't require anything close to a bleeding edge GPU. If consoles are lost, at least lost from Sony and XBox, it's because they decided not to compete in the space - there are still plenty of opportunities to explore.

ghusto 3mo ago

They make sense to many people, even if not to you. I'll take a one-function device over a general device any day. You switch it on, it does the thing, you switch it off. General purpose computers are the exception that proves the rule, in that "the thing" in their case _is_ everything. I couldn't care less about playing with randos on the internet, but am very interested in playing with people I know in the same room.