4 ms·

Andrew is bitter (or something related) about this whole situation, that's no question, he writes it in his updated post (he doesn't say "bitter", but he speaks

by jraph 3mo ago

Andrew is bitter (or something related) about this whole situation, that's no question, he writes it in his updated post (he doesn't say "bitter", but he speaks about unprocessed emotions). People are entitled to their emotions. The question is whether the bitterness is warranted. I think it is.

entrope 3mo ago
Yes, people are entitled to their emotions, but the ways they behave in public and express their emotions reflects on them in a major way. The Bun blog post focused on the technical reasons to change, and was complimentary about Zig. The Zig blog post was heavy on personal attacks, with some technical claims that the Bun blog post had mostly addressed already. Between the two, the Bun post is a lot more compelling from technical and professional perspectives. I'll admit to thinking that the Rust crowd often has a toxic atmosphere, but Zig came off as worse in this exchange.
- jraph 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - joshuamorton 3mo ago
    > Of course when you are the creator of Zig, that may feel quite unfair and you should highlight it. Then highlight that, don't repeatedly insult someone. If Andrew thinks the same kind of ai-assisted improvement would be possible in Zig, and that avoiding the kinds of errors migrating to rust achieved would be possible in Zig, he should demonstrate it. And I don't necessarily mean rewriting all of Bun in "better-zig", but like, if you're going to say "this project is bad because it is badly maintained, not because the language has limitations" then demonstrate something to that effect. The only technical detail I recall from Andrew's post is that zig has faster compile times, which may well be true but what do I care?
    - jraph 3mo ago
      > Then highlight that, don't repeatedly insult someone I wrote in my comment that I don't support him doing so.
  - entrope 3mo ago
    When accusing someone of "good looking lies", it would help to provide an example or two with an explanation of why you think they're lies (rather than mistakes, oversights or differences of opinion). Complaints that the post "subtly and misleadingly throws shade at Zig" are hard to accept without that kind of support.
    - jraph 3mo ago
      I did this there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48898514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48898514 But others did before me in this very HN submission, we are not going to repeat everything in every comment, are we? It's not the first lies from Anthropic and more generally from the AI industry as a whole neither. It's their default communication mode.

by jraph 3mo ago

entrope 3mo ago

Yes, people are entitled to their emotions, but the ways they behave in public and express their emotions reflects on them in a major way. The Bun blog post focused on the technical reasons to change, and was complimentary about Zig. The Zig blog post was heavy on personal attacks, with some technical claims that the Bun blog post had mostly addressed already. Between the two, the Bun post is a lot more compelling from technical and professional perspectives. I'll admit to thinking that the Rust crowd often has a toxic atmosphere, but Zig came off as worse in this exchange.

jraph 3mo ago
[flagged]
- joshuamorton 3mo ago
  > Of course when you are the creator of Zig, that may feel quite unfair and you should highlight it. Then highlight that, don't repeatedly insult someone. If Andrew thinks the same kind of ai-assisted improvement would be possible in Zig, and that avoiding the kinds of errors migrating to rust achieved would be possible in Zig, he should demonstrate it. And I don't necessarily mean rewriting all of Bun in "better-zig", but like, if you're going to say "this project is bad because it is badly maintained, not because the language has limitations" then demonstrate something to that effect. The only technical detail I recall from Andrew's post is that zig has faster compile times, which may well be true but what do I care?
  - jraph 3mo ago
    > Then highlight that, don't repeatedly insult someone I wrote in my comment that I don't support him doing so.
- entrope 3mo ago
  When accusing someone of "good looking lies", it would help to provide an example or two with an explanation of why you think they're lies (rather than mistakes, oversights or differences of opinion). Complaints that the post "subtly and misleadingly throws shade at Zig" are hard to accept without that kind of support.
  - jraph 3mo ago
    I did this there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48898514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48898514 But others did before me in this very HN submission, we are not going to repeat everything in every comment, are we? It's not the first lies from Anthropic and more generally from the AI industry as a whole neither. It's their default communication mode.