4 ms·

I do not agree with his take on audio books. I find having a book with me and reading at all times as suggested a bit impractical, however for audio books it is

by kriro 3mo ago

I do not agree with his take on audio books. I find having a book with me and reading at all times as suggested a bit impractical, however for audio books it is way more feasible. I have long-ish commutes of 5h every couple of weeks and listening to audio books on the drive is great. I also listen to audiobooks when I vacuum, clean, grocery shop. Always unabridged versions and I research quite a bit what I want to listen to. I usually "hybrid" listen/read so I'll continue reading the physical book later in the evening. I keep notes in a physical notebook but keep it super light. I read mostly fiction so it's usually plot points of each chapter and then when I'm done some quick thoughts. I enjoy this and it satisfies my analytical brain to think about things I really liked that an author did or reappearing structures and so on. I also enjoy the meta-level of reading. Watching review videos on Youtube, thinking about what to read next and finding "hidden gems", so basically the hobby aspect of it.

i_am_a_peasant 3mo ago
i never managed to pay attention fully to an audio book. i always have to go back 30 seconds every now and then cause i lose the plot. i am the same with books. i never read it linearly. i jump back a lot and reread a page or two. and jumping back is just way easier with text. and it’s easier with a physical book than on a kindle. on my big android tablet i can scroll fast back if it’s a pdf. but it’s not always fun to read on a tablet
- soco 3mo ago
  Maybe it's not your problem, but I realized I can only fully pay attention to audiobooks in my native language. Arguably not even then, when there are interruptions, obviously, but listening in any other language I can't even tell why I lost track - I just find myself in some unknown place and I have to rewind. This of course limits a lot the fun, because it's a hassle to constantly have to rewind some literature (also less availability in the first place). Luckily it's less of a problem for a course or technical article where I'd rewind often anyway to think better about some aspect.
- kriro 3mo ago
  I had the same problem, playing with the speed helped for me. Similar to meditation, I also learned to focus more on the listening. I completely agree that text is better for jumping and audio might also not be perfect for everybody. For fiction audio it also depends a lot on the narration for me. It needs to be top notch or I "check out".
kamranjon 3mo ago
In your examples you are always doing something else while listening to an audio book. This was the authors point. Reading is the activity - and I definitely agree - I still listen to audio books, but for a different purpose, to avoid boredom when exercising, etc but I don’t consider this reading. I really think most people can learn quite a bit, especially in this age of instant gratification, by sitting down and performing just the task of reading. For me it is a huge boon for my mental health to engage in this way. I think you could do it with audio books too, but I don’t know a single person who engages with them in that solitary way, it is always an addition to some other activity.
- bonoboTP 3mo ago
  There are activities that are quite autopilot, like vacuuming, washing dishes etc. Such activities have always allowed for listening to language, typically in a group. Of course this is not for difficult math textbooks or dense philosophy.
- kriro 3mo ago
  Listening to audiobooks for me is a learned skill. when I started my mind used to wander off and I couldn't tell you what I just listened to. Now for autopilot activities I'm hyper focused on the books. I have increased the speed to roughly 1.3x which seems to be the sweetspot for my brain. Faster sounds like robot-voices to me and slower made me wander off. I completely agree with the "mental health" boon to taking time, slowing down and focusing on an activity. This can be done with audiobooks, too. I sometimes sit on my couch and listen to an audiobook, too.
- agumonkey 3mo ago
  I still want to try audiobooks more, but I agree that cutting your mind and diving into the words is something quite special. And I was convinced that ebook readers or tablets or whatever from the 2010s would be able to top that but so far I never saw it getting close. Weird.
- jasonlotito 3mo ago
  > but I don't know a single person who engages with them in that solitary way, We exist. You won't know because it's solitary. You have to ask, and I doubt you've asked people specifically if they "engage with them" in that way. I also think it depends on what you are reading. I read for enjoyment using audio books. I read to learn using real books. If you equate the two and assume someone using audio books is using them for non-fiction to learn something, I really think you are out of touch.
stevenwoo 3mo ago
Some audiobooks can add to the experience - for instance in both Flowers for Algernon and Stranger in a Strange Land the main character evolves in ways the performer encapsulates in their voice that most readers probably did not do as well - I read both in print about 40 years ago and listening to the audiobooks recently was a revelation. There’s also A Confederacy of Dunces - this has multiple American accents that I bet no non native speaker could capture and possibly escapes most Americans as well. Another example is Infinite Jest - some people like the going back and forth with the footnotes but i preferred the audiobook incorporating the footnotes with a second narrator of different gender than the main one with an audio cue.

by kriro 3mo ago

i_am_a_peasant 3mo ago

i never managed to pay attention fully to an audio book. i always have to go back 30 seconds every now and then cause i lose the plot. i am the same with books. i never read it linearly. i jump back a lot and reread a page or two. and jumping back is just way easier with text. and it’s easier with a physical book than on a kindle. on my big android tablet i can scroll fast back if it’s a pdf. but it’s not always fun to read on a tablet

soco 3mo ago
Maybe it's not your problem, but I realized I can only fully pay attention to audiobooks in my native language. Arguably not even then, when there are interruptions, obviously, but listening in any other language I can't even tell why I lost track - I just find myself in some unknown place and I have to rewind. This of course limits a lot the fun, because it's a hassle to constantly have to rewind some literature (also less availability in the first place). Luckily it's less of a problem for a course or technical article where I'd rewind often anyway to think better about some aspect.
kriro 3mo ago
I had the same problem, playing with the speed helped for me. Similar to meditation, I also learned to focus more on the listening. I completely agree that text is better for jumping and audio might also not be perfect for everybody. For fiction audio it also depends a lot on the narration for me. It needs to be top notch or I "check out".

kamranjon 3mo ago

In your examples you are always doing something else while listening to an audio book. This was the authors point. Reading is the activity - and I definitely agree - I still listen to audio books, but for a different purpose, to avoid boredom when exercising, etc but I don’t consider this reading. I really think most people can learn quite a bit, especially in this age of instant gratification, by sitting down and performing just the task of reading. For me it is a huge boon for my mental health to engage in this way. I think you could do it with audio books too, but I don’t know a single person who engages with them in that solitary way, it is always an addition to some other activity.

bonoboTP 3mo ago
There are activities that are quite autopilot, like vacuuming, washing dishes etc. Such activities have always allowed for listening to language, typically in a group. Of course this is not for difficult math textbooks or dense philosophy.
kriro 3mo ago
Listening to audiobooks for me is a learned skill. when I started my mind used to wander off and I couldn't tell you what I just listened to. Now for autopilot activities I'm hyper focused on the books. I have increased the speed to roughly 1.3x which seems to be the sweetspot for my brain. Faster sounds like robot-voices to me and slower made me wander off. I completely agree with the "mental health" boon to taking time, slowing down and focusing on an activity. This can be done with audiobooks, too. I sometimes sit on my couch and listen to an audiobook, too.
agumonkey 3mo ago
I still want to try audiobooks more, but I agree that cutting your mind and diving into the words is something quite special. And I was convinced that ebook readers or tablets or whatever from the 2010s would be able to top that but so far I never saw it getting close. Weird.
jasonlotito 3mo ago
> but I don't know a single person who engages with them in that solitary way, We exist. You won't know because it's solitary. You have to ask, and I doubt you've asked people specifically if they "engage with them" in that way. I also think it depends on what you are reading. I read for enjoyment using audio books. I read to learn using real books. If you equate the two and assume someone using audio books is using them for non-fiction to learn something, I really think you are out of touch.

stevenwoo 3mo ago

Some audiobooks can add to the experience - for instance in both Flowers for Algernon and Stranger in a Strange Land the main character evolves in ways the performer encapsulates in their voice that most readers probably did not do as well - I read both in print about 40 years ago and listening to the audiobooks recently was a revelation. There’s also A Confederacy of Dunces - this has multiple American accents that I bet no non native speaker could capture and possibly escapes most Americans as well. Another example is Infinite Jest - some people like the going back and forth with the footnotes but i preferred the audiobook incorporating the footnotes with a second narrator of different gender than the main one with an audio cue.