6 ms·

Why all the down votes?

by Beijinger 3mo ago

vardump 3mo ago
Because it's not true? If you think it is, sources please.
- Beijinger 3mo ago
  Not hard, if you pump 600 billion [1] into one of the most corrupt [2] and poorest countries [3] Google AI: [1] The European Union and its member states have provided a total of €215.2 billion in overall support to Ukraine and its people since the start of Russia's war of aggression "Since the start of Russia's war of aggression, they have provided €215.2 billion in support for Ukraine and its people.", as reported by the Consilium of the European Union. As of mid-2026, the United States Congress has made available $195 billion in total spending related to the war in Ukraine. [2] Ukraine scored 36 out of 100 points in the latest Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), ranking 104th out of 180 countries. While the country’s rating has improved in recent years, ongoing wartime procurement and defense-sector scandals point to continued high-level corruption risks. Behind most EU candidates: The average score for EU candidate countries is 39. Nations like Montenegro (46), Moldova (42), and Albania (40) are all perceived as cleaner than Ukraine. [3] Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe by both individual and national wealth standards, largely due to historical factors and the massive economic toll of the full-scale war. Global Standing: On the global stage, Ukraine ranks 94th
  - vardump 3mo ago
    Ask Google AI what's the real value of the supplied aid. Also, supplying Ukraine is a cheap way to prevent similar invasions from happening in the future.
    - Beijinger 3mo ago
      Better question would be: What is the REAL cost? After blowing up the energy supply of Germany....
      - vardump 3mo ago
        Sigh. It's still a very cheap price to pay for the European security.
Arnt 3mo ago
"let's send this stuff from the warehouse to Ukraine" "let's say it's a value of $x even though it's close to the use-by date" and then come you and write that someone sent $x, and expect anyone to believe that. And you even write that $x makes hard things easy. Hope much did the US pay to lose against Iran? Winning against anyone for the same sum isn't easy.
- Beijinger 3mo ago
  Ukraine is not winning. This is a distorted view in the west, and I am not Russian. Just a few more billions and Russia will collapse. Russia is not fighting Ukraine, Russia is fighting NATO. And we are in dangerous territory. Emmanuell Todd predicted this and this is not a person to be taken lightly (e.g. predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976 as a 26 years old PhD student): https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2024/11/how-the-west-was-lost/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2024/11/how-the-west-was-... We need just a few more sanctions against Russia and we will have a Regime change. The regime change will come, but likely different than we thought - AfD in Germany, Farange in the UK and LePen in France.
  - vardump 3mo ago
    I honestly don't see how Russia is going to win. The West is never going to allow that, because the future consequences would be detrimental.
  - Sabinus 3mo ago
    Russia is not entitled to swallow any neighbour that looks at them funny. Neither are we required to stand by and do nothing for the fear of the possibility that Russia will become more belligerent. Russia thought the Ukrainians wouldn't put up much resistance and launched a war of conquest to prevent Ukraine from joining the EU. It's failed in it's gamble and it has to experience the consequences. Russia often reforms only after military defeat exposes how badly the state and army are failing: Crimea pushed the Great Reforms, Japan helped trigger 1905, and Afghanistan plus the Cold War strain fed the Soviet collapse. Loss forces changes that peace lets the system avoid. And maybe we'll get a conciliatory government not an aggressive one doubling down.
tim333 3mo ago
They didn't pour $600bn. They've fought valiantly and going on about them being poor and corrupt isn't very nice.
Sabinus 3mo ago
What percentage of the aid do you think was stolen?
- Beijinger 3mo ago
  No idea. But I know some people we could ask: The "Monaco Battalion" (Batysalion Monako) is not an official military unit, but rather an ironic nickname given by Ukrainian media (such as Ukrainska Pravda) to a network of wealthy Ukrainian oligarchs, politicians, and businesspeople. This group relocated to the French Riviera to sit out the war.
  - Sabinus 3mo ago
    Do you have a particular amount of corruption in mind before Ukraine is disqualified from receiving Western aid, or are you 'just asking questions'? Have the efforts of the Ukrainian anti corruption agencies and the defence of them by the Ukrainian public made any impression on you?
    - Beijinger 3mo ago
      Well, I would not send "aid" to Switzerland too. Does this answer your question?
      - Sabinus 3mo ago
        Not really, no. Per-capita Switzerland is rich, well fortified, and isn't being conquered to punish it for attempting to join a trade bloc. And free countries don't really like their neighbours being conquered by aggressive imperialist authoritarian states. I'm interested in the criteria that you judge a country of not deserving of aid, especially since it is in the interests of the donor countries that Ukraine not be conquered.

Why all the down votes?

vardump 3mo ago

Because it's not true? If you think it is, sources please.

Beijinger 3mo ago
Not hard, if you pump 600 billion [1] into one of the most corrupt [2] and poorest countries [3] Google AI: [1] The European Union and its member states have provided a total of €215.2 billion in overall support to Ukraine and its people since the start of Russia's war of aggression "Since the start of Russia's war of aggression, they have provided €215.2 billion in support for Ukraine and its people.", as reported by the Consilium of the European Union. As of mid-2026, the United States Congress has made available $195 billion in total spending related to the war in Ukraine. [2] Ukraine scored 36 out of 100 points in the latest Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), ranking 104th out of 180 countries. While the country’s rating has improved in recent years, ongoing wartime procurement and defense-sector scandals point to continued high-level corruption risks. Behind most EU candidates: The average score for EU candidate countries is 39. Nations like Montenegro (46), Moldova (42), and Albania (40) are all perceived as cleaner than Ukraine. [3] Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe by both individual and national wealth standards, largely due to historical factors and the massive economic toll of the full-scale war. Global Standing: On the global stage, Ukraine ranks 94th
- vardump 3mo ago
  Ask Google AI what's the real value of the supplied aid. Also, supplying Ukraine is a cheap way to prevent similar invasions from happening in the future.
  - Beijinger 3mo ago
    Better question would be: What is the REAL cost? After blowing up the energy supply of Germany....
    - vardump 3mo ago
      Sigh. It's still a very cheap price to pay for the European security.

Arnt 3mo ago

"let's send this stuff from the warehouse to Ukraine" "let's say it's a value of $x even though it's close to the use-by date" and then come you and write that someone sent $x, and expect anyone to believe that. And you even write that $x makes hard things easy. Hope much did the US pay to lose against Iran? Winning against anyone for the same sum isn't easy.

Beijinger 3mo ago
Ukraine is not winning. This is a distorted view in the west, and I am not Russian. Just a few more billions and Russia will collapse. Russia is not fighting Ukraine, Russia is fighting NATO. And we are in dangerous territory. Emmanuell Todd predicted this and this is not a person to be taken lightly (e.g. predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976 as a 26 years old PhD student): https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2024/11/how-the-west-was-lost/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2024/11/how-the-west-was-... We need just a few more sanctions against Russia and we will have a Regime change. The regime change will come, but likely different than we thought - AfD in Germany, Farange in the UK and LePen in France.
- vardump 3mo ago
  I honestly don't see how Russia is going to win. The West is never going to allow that, because the future consequences would be detrimental.
- Sabinus 3mo ago
  Russia is not entitled to swallow any neighbour that looks at them funny. Neither are we required to stand by and do nothing for the fear of the possibility that Russia will become more belligerent. Russia thought the Ukrainians wouldn't put up much resistance and launched a war of conquest to prevent Ukraine from joining the EU. It's failed in it's gamble and it has to experience the consequences. Russia often reforms only after military defeat exposes how badly the state and army are failing: Crimea pushed the Great Reforms, Japan helped trigger 1905, and Afghanistan plus the Cold War strain fed the Soviet collapse. Loss forces changes that peace lets the system avoid. And maybe we'll get a conciliatory government not an aggressive one doubling down.

tim333 3mo ago

They didn't pour $600bn. They've fought valiantly and going on about them being poor and corrupt isn't very nice.

Sabinus 3mo ago

What percentage of the aid do you think was stolen?

Beijinger 3mo ago
No idea. But I know some people we could ask: The "Monaco Battalion" (Batysalion Monako) is not an official military unit, but rather an ironic nickname given by Ukrainian media (such as Ukrainska Pravda) to a network of wealthy Ukrainian oligarchs, politicians, and businesspeople. This group relocated to the French Riviera to sit out the war.
- Sabinus 3mo ago
  Do you have a particular amount of corruption in mind before Ukraine is disqualified from receiving Western aid, or are you 'just asking questions'? Have the efforts of the Ukrainian anti corruption agencies and the defence of them by the Ukrainian public made any impression on you?
  - Beijinger 3mo ago
    Well, I would not send "aid" to Switzerland too. Does this answer your question?
    - Sabinus 3mo ago
      Not really, no. Per-capita Switzerland is rich, well fortified, and isn't being conquered to punish it for attempting to join a trade bloc. And free countries don't really like their neighbours being conquered by aggressive imperialist authoritarian states. I'm interested in the criteria that you judge a country of not deserving of aid, especially since it is in the interests of the donor countries that Ukraine not be conquered.