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Just checked with ai about Berkley (I like this uni from telly): EECS B.S.: You must complete six humanities/social-science courses. Two are Reading and Compos

Just checked with ai about Berkley (I like this uni from telly): EECS B.S.: You must complete six humanities/social-science courses. Two are Reading and Composition courses, and four come from approved areas such as history, philosophy, arts, international studies, or social sciences. At least two must be upper-division. https://engineering.berkeley.edu/students/undergraduate-guide/degree-requirements/humanities-and-social-sciences/ https://engineering.berkeley.edu/students/undergraduate-guid... All Berkeley undergraduates must complete one approved American Cultures course dealing comparatively with race, ethnicity, and culture in the United States https://undergraduate.catalog.berkeley.edu/earning-your-degree/university-campus-requirements/american-cultures?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://undergraduate.catalog.berkeley.edu/earning-your-degr... We can argue about subject names, but if teacher openly promotes marxism, anticolonialism and misandry, etc..., for me it is "woke garbage", even if the subject name is "history" or "international studies".

nekusar 3mo ago
Vouched for this. When I worked in IT at a second-tier university (not Ivy), I saw some of the classes that passed for humanities. And you have profs who are legit teaching cited facts, and some who teach their political persuasion as facts. BTW, depending on the school, the hard left/hard right flips. Schools of law, economics, engineering - are usually hard right. Now its also an experience that conservatives in classes also perceive facts as 'wokeism'. Facts aren't woke, but damn, don't try to say that to them. And lest to say, Marx did have cogent commentaries about universities regressing to STEM, since in a capitalist economy, the 'profit' is only measurable in how much you can help a capitalist produce. But people still freak out about even teaching Marxism fairly. (Howls of woke.) What's hilarious is that for all the yelling of 'competition is great', capitalists are incapable and unwilling to compete with socialism and communism, and will do any dirty trick to NOT teach those.
- LPisGood 3mo ago
  > the hard left/hard right flips. Schools of law, economics, engineering - are usually hard right. This is just objectively not true at all, accept in cases so specific that mentioning it as a general rule is misleading
  - nekusar 3mo ago
    "Ur not true" is not objective in any way. Counterpoint, I'm right. Look at figure 3. https://www.independent.org/tir/2022-23-winter/the-hyperpoliticization-of-higher-ed/ https://www.independent.org/tir/2022-23-winter/the-hyperpoli...
    - LPisGood 3mo ago
      It’s certainly the case that some departments are more to the right than the most progressive ones, but this is a far cry from what was described above - “hard right.”
LPisGood 3mo ago
Putting a broad label of “woke garbage” on simple liberal arts requirements of taking a few classes from “history, philosophy, arts, international studies, or social sciences,” almost does not even justify a response. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’ve never taken such a class, but I can assure that unless you live in a reality so warped by politics, that basic logic and reason is out the window, classes covering those subjects are serious, thoughtful, and rigorous at accredited US universities.
- nekusar 3mo ago
  Thing is, I have takrn a class like that. Was a political science class. Extreme hard right (chinese dissident, hard anti-left). I wrote the requisite papers. All of them were F, with no commentary. I brought this to the department chair, and the grades changed to b's and a-'s. He was absolutely grading on political position for the paper, and not a proper discussion of content per the rubric. And, aside from going to the chair every time, theres little you can do to fight this sort of obvious bias.
  - names_are_hard 3mo ago
    I don't understand how this happened. Surely you picked up enough of the lecturer's views during the lectures and you knew what you had to say to get a good grade. So why didn't you do it? The way I see it, the humanities classes are there to make sure you learn the non-technical aspects of life well enough to be a functioning member of the adult world. To succeed in life, one of the things you need to be able to do is read the room and decide what to say and what to skip. As a hiring manager, I want to hire people who get it and aren't always bumping heads or causing unnecessary friction. So in that sense, success in these courses is a good signal for hiring managers. P.S. You ultimately did succeed in getting that signal, because you got them to change your grade using resourcefulness and persistence. Which are also important soft skills I want as a hiring manager. So overall I would say the system is working just fine.
    - nekusar 3mo ago
watwut 3mo ago
The woke horrors of having take history and composition. Or art and reading. Or, OMG sociology! Oh no! A class about culture or race or gender! Famously race dont matter, except when choosing military leaders.
- throw94949499 3mo ago
  Black History Month lectures at $100/hour. Amazing deal!
  - watwut 3mo ago
    Imo, this inherent issue with learning about history of non-whites gives the game away. It is as if the history of blacks or women or whoever else was some kind of threat.

nekusar 3mo ago

Vouched for this. When I worked in IT at a second-tier university (not Ivy), I saw some of the classes that passed for humanities. And you have profs who are legit teaching cited facts, and some who teach their political persuasion as facts. BTW, depending on the school, the hard left/hard right flips. Schools of law, economics, engineering - are usually hard right. Now its also an experience that conservatives in classes also perceive facts as 'wokeism'. Facts aren't woke, but damn, don't try to say that to them. And lest to say, Marx did have cogent commentaries about universities regressing to STEM, since in a capitalist economy, the 'profit' is only measurable in how much you can help a capitalist produce. But people still freak out about even teaching Marxism fairly. (Howls of woke.) What's hilarious is that for all the yelling of 'competition is great', capitalists are incapable and unwilling to compete with socialism and communism, and will do any dirty trick to NOT teach those.

LPisGood 3mo ago
> the hard left/hard right flips. Schools of law, economics, engineering - are usually hard right. This is just objectively not true at all, accept in cases so specific that mentioning it as a general rule is misleading
- nekusar 3mo ago
  "Ur not true" is not objective in any way. Counterpoint, I'm right. Look at figure 3. https://www.independent.org/tir/2022-23-winter/the-hyperpoliticization-of-higher-ed/ https://www.independent.org/tir/2022-23-winter/the-hyperpoli...
  - LPisGood 3mo ago
    It’s certainly the case that some departments are more to the right than the most progressive ones, but this is a far cry from what was described above - “hard right.”

LPisGood 3mo ago

Putting a broad label of “woke garbage” on simple liberal arts requirements of taking a few classes from “history, philosophy, arts, international studies, or social sciences,” almost does not even justify a response. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’ve never taken such a class, but I can assure that unless you live in a reality so warped by politics, that basic logic and reason is out the window, classes covering those subjects are serious, thoughtful, and rigorous at accredited US universities.

nekusar 3mo ago
Thing is, I have takrn a class like that. Was a political science class. Extreme hard right (chinese dissident, hard anti-left). I wrote the requisite papers. All of them were F, with no commentary. I brought this to the department chair, and the grades changed to b's and a-'s. He was absolutely grading on political position for the paper, and not a proper discussion of content per the rubric. And, aside from going to the chair every time, theres little you can do to fight this sort of obvious bias.
- names_are_hard 3mo ago
  I don't understand how this happened. Surely you picked up enough of the lecturer's views during the lectures and you knew what you had to say to get a good grade. So why didn't you do it? The way I see it, the humanities classes are there to make sure you learn the non-technical aspects of life well enough to be a functioning member of the adult world. To succeed in life, one of the things you need to be able to do is read the room and decide what to say and what to skip. As a hiring manager, I want to hire people who get it and aren't always bumping heads or causing unnecessary friction. So in that sense, success in these courses is a good signal for hiring managers. P.S. You ultimately did succeed in getting that signal, because you got them to change your grade using resourcefulness and persistence. Which are also important soft skills I want as a hiring manager. So overall I would say the system is working just fine.
  - nekusar 3mo ago

watwut 3mo ago

The woke horrors of having take history and composition. Or art and reading. Or, OMG sociology! Oh no! A class about culture or race or gender! Famously race dont matter, except when choosing military leaders.

throw94949499 3mo ago
Black History Month lectures at $100/hour. Amazing deal!
- watwut 3mo ago
  Imo, this inherent issue with learning about history of non-whites gives the game away. It is as if the history of blacks or women or whoever else was some kind of threat.