4 ms·

Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I thin

Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I think a lot of younger folks see through the BS and don't want to send their time listening to hate speech discussed as gospel. These churches chose thier path, and so did their parishioners.

antonymoose 3mo ago
What church(es) are you thinking of here exactly? I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. On the contrary, most folks in the 20-40 range are tired of “cafeteria Christian” denominations that pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by and which go ignore based on ever shifting social trends, whether it be so-called woke churches hosting drag performers or Boomer-tier Endtimes preachers that can’t stop talking about their all expense paid Israeli “pilgrimage.”
- beardyw 3mo ago
  > pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by OK. Next time you read the parable of the good Samaritan I want you to reframe it as "The Good Drag Queen". That's how you are meant to see it.
  - antonymoose 3mo ago
    I read it as a take encouraging me to render aid to anyone in a dire emergency regardless of their background.
    - dpark 3mo ago
      That’s a very narrow reading. The parable was in response to the question “who’s my neighbor” in the “love thy neighbor” statement and Jesus basically said “even those you hate”(i.e. the Samaritans).
      - antonymoose 3mo ago
        I can love you and still disagree with the things you do and not endorse them. These are not in conflict.
        dpark 3mo ago
        This claim hinges on the idea that homosexuality is a thing you do and not a part of who you are. You can love someone while hating a thing they do. You cannot love someone while hating who they are. The conservative Christian notion that homosexuality is a choice to is honestly super weird to me because I certainly never chose heterosexuality. It’s one of those things that only makes sense while you’re in it and it’s constantly being beat into you, and with some distance you see that it’s ridiculous.
        antonymoose 3mo ago
        You’re free to believe whatever it is you like - that’s your belief system. I didn’t intend to start a theological debate ultimately. Only highlight as a counterpoint to the GP that going to church in the modern era really feels like you have to pick one side or another and that it’s simply an extension of politics rather than an higher-order thing.
        dpark 3mo ago
        My point here is that all Christians are “cafeteria Christians”. They all pick and choose the pieces they agree with and want to follow. They discard the inconvenient stuff as no longer relevant and claim the things that they believe are supported by the scripture. So much of Christian belief is not in the bible no matter what particular sect you are a part of. I remember when those “Left Behind” book’s came out and I found out many of my friends believed in a physical rapture where those “saved” would literally disappear from the Earth. I had no idea this was even a thing because it’s not something my church taught and it’s not in the bible. Most (all?) other groups have their own rules and beliefs that are not in the bible. I’m not sure it’s possible to be fully faithful to the Bible because it’s not entirely self consistent. Also the books of the bible themselves were chosen from many candidate texts. It’s not as if Jesus left a bibliography.
- dpark 3mo ago
  > I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. I grew up in the South and distinctly remember the Southern Baptist preachings against interracial marriage based on selective (mis)readings of the Bible, against homosexuality based on selective readings of the Old Testament (pick and choose indeed; hate gays while eating your BBQ pork). I remember the constant calls for boycott of Disney parks because of “gay days”. I don’t know what it’s like I’m a Southern Baptist church now, but I seriously doubt it’s changed much.
  - antonymoose 3mo ago
    Well, that’s quite a bit of baggage to unpack. In regards to “miscegenation” we have Galatians which largely renders that point moot, highlighting everyone’s love of cherry-picking scripture. In regards to homosexuality, you have Leviticus, I assume you’re referencing. Given the widespread practice of man-boy relations as famously highlighted by the Spartans and of course recent special military operations in Afghanistan I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted. Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot. Overall - your assumption around Southern Baptists largely stands. Our last church, my wife had to constantly deal with snide remarks because of her having previously been married to a man that went and overdosed on fentanyl. Meanwhile half the grandparents in the congregation are raising their own grandchildren for the exact same reason… Which leads to our currently being “unchurched” as they say, because the worst part of Christianity is the other Christians ;)
    - dpark 3mo ago
      > Given the widespread practice of man-boy … I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted. I’m struggling with this statement. Are you saying that Leviticus is actually only anti-pedophile and not anti-gay (and so all these conservative Christian preachers are willfully misrepresenting it), or are you continuing the long tradition of falsely linking homosexuality with pedophilia? Is there some other interpretation I’m missing? > Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot. I mean, pork is only one of a million things forbidden in Leviticus that modern Christians ignore. Why is charging interest on loans okay now? Where’s the part where Mark says that’s cool? What about period sex? Seems that rule is gone, too. Where is the passage that says “Pretty much everything in Leviticus is irrelevant except the gay thing”?
- watwut 3mo ago
  So like, scripture has issue with drag performance? I read bible, actually, and can argue it does not mention it. That being said, every single denomination picks and chooses. Especially more conservative ones. And in fact, you cant take it all literally and quite a lot is not applicable.
  - antonymoose 3mo ago
    You are correct it neither endorses nor denigrates the specific practice. So why then do we have a church hosting the performances? It’s not relevant to the faith at all? Identity politics entered the chat, unfortunately. Which leads back to my point, there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction.
    - watwut 3mo ago
      > there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction. You are expressing hunger for openly political church. The one that will reject yout political ennemies regardless of faith. Your opposition to drag is literally identity politics - rejection due to assumed identity. After all men only and women only groups im church go back to over thousand years. Churches traditionally hosted musical and other performances not strictly related to scripture. Between musoc and groups and socialization and even sports, all of that wqs part of it.
YinglingHeavy 3mo ago
As a Nietzschean it is amusing, this argument that Christianity is losing favor because it is...not moral enough! Truly our institutions are post-Christianity. The herd morality has out survived Christianity itself. Nietzsche's nightmare
- mjevans 3mo ago
  The nightmare is not outgrowing the child version of 'how to morality'. It's moving past it without reaching the enlightenment of being moral because it's the best large scale and long term strategy. Instead the grown psychopathic children all move for instant gratification and rewards in the now, damn the cost of society and civilization long term. I want to reach Orville / Star Trek, thank you!
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    When you say you want to reach Orville, are you referring to the episode where everyone wears an upvote counter badge? Because I can see that one coming true.
- PsylentKnight 3mo ago
  It’s losing favor because it’s lacking in a lot of ways. The most exhorted virtue in the church is faith, which is just another word for irrationality. So the church often ends up in conflict with reality or even its own doctrine Its more difficult to maintain this when everyone has a device in their pocket that allows them to access information and people outside their church bubble

antonymoose 3mo ago

What church(es) are you thinking of here exactly? I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. On the contrary, most folks in the 20-40 range are tired of “cafeteria Christian” denominations that pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by and which go ignore based on ever shifting social trends, whether it be so-called woke churches hosting drag performers or Boomer-tier Endtimes preachers that can’t stop talking about their all expense paid Israeli “pilgrimage.”

beardyw 3mo ago
> pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by OK. Next time you read the parable of the good Samaritan I want you to reframe it as "The Good Drag Queen". That's how you are meant to see it.
- antonymoose 3mo ago
  I read it as a take encouraging me to render aid to anyone in a dire emergency regardless of their background.
  - dpark 3mo ago
    That’s a very narrow reading. The parable was in response to the question “who’s my neighbor” in the “love thy neighbor” statement and Jesus basically said “even those you hate”(i.e. the Samaritans).
    - antonymoose 3mo ago
      I can love you and still disagree with the things you do and not endorse them. These are not in conflict.
      - dpark 3mo ago
        This claim hinges on the idea that homosexuality is a thing you do and not a part of who you are. You can love someone while hating a thing they do. You cannot love someone while hating who they are. The conservative Christian notion that homosexuality is a choice to is honestly super weird to me because I certainly never chose heterosexuality. It’s one of those things that only makes sense while you’re in it and it’s constantly being beat into you, and with some distance you see that it’s ridiculous.
        antonymoose 3mo ago
        You’re free to believe whatever it is you like - that’s your belief system. I didn’t intend to start a theological debate ultimately. Only highlight as a counterpoint to the GP that going to church in the modern era really feels like you have to pick one side or another and that it’s simply an extension of politics rather than an higher-order thing.
        dpark 3mo ago
        My point here is that all Christians are “cafeteria Christians”. They all pick and choose the pieces they agree with and want to follow. They discard the inconvenient stuff as no longer relevant and claim the things that they believe are supported by the scripture. So much of Christian belief is not in the bible no matter what particular sect you are a part of. I remember when those “Left Behind” book’s came out and I found out many of my friends believed in a physical rapture where those “saved” would literally disappear from the Earth. I had no idea this was even a thing because it’s not something my church taught and it’s not in the bible. Most (all?) other groups have their own rules and beliefs that are not in the bible. I’m not sure it’s possible to be fully faithful to the Bible because it’s not entirely self consistent. Also the books of the bible themselves were chosen from many candidate texts. It’s not as if Jesus left a bibliography.
dpark 3mo ago
> I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life. I grew up in the South and distinctly remember the Southern Baptist preachings against interracial marriage based on selective (mis)readings of the Bible, against homosexuality based on selective readings of the Old Testament (pick and choose indeed; hate gays while eating your BBQ pork). I remember the constant calls for boycott of Disney parks because of “gay days”. I don’t know what it’s like I’m a Southern Baptist church now, but I seriously doubt it’s changed much.
- antonymoose 3mo ago
  Well, that’s quite a bit of baggage to unpack. In regards to “miscegenation” we have Galatians which largely renders that point moot, highlighting everyone’s love of cherry-picking scripture. In regards to homosexuality, you have Leviticus, I assume you’re referencing. Given the widespread practice of man-boy relations as famously highlighted by the Spartans and of course recent special military operations in Afghanistan I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted. Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot. Overall - your assumption around Southern Baptists largely stands. Our last church, my wife had to constantly deal with snide remarks because of her having previously been married to a man that went and overdosed on fentanyl. Meanwhile half the grandparents in the congregation are raising their own grandchildren for the exact same reason… Which leads to our currently being “unchurched” as they say, because the worst part of Christianity is the other Christians ;)
  - dpark 3mo ago
    > Given the widespread practice of man-boy … I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted. I’m struggling with this statement. Are you saying that Leviticus is actually only anti-pedophile and not anti-gay (and so all these conservative Christian preachers are willfully misrepresenting it), or are you continuing the long tradition of falsely linking homosexuality with pedophilia? Is there some other interpretation I’m missing? > Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot. I mean, pork is only one of a million things forbidden in Leviticus that modern Christians ignore. Why is charging interest on loans okay now? Where’s the part where Mark says that’s cool? What about period sex? Seems that rule is gone, too. Where is the passage that says “Pretty much everything in Leviticus is irrelevant except the gay thing”?
watwut 3mo ago
So like, scripture has issue with drag performance? I read bible, actually, and can argue it does not mention it. That being said, every single denomination picks and chooses. Especially more conservative ones. And in fact, you cant take it all literally and quite a lot is not applicable.
- antonymoose 3mo ago
  You are correct it neither endorses nor denigrates the specific practice. So why then do we have a church hosting the performances? It’s not relevant to the faith at all? Identity politics entered the chat, unfortunately. Which leads back to my point, there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction.
  - watwut 3mo ago
    > there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction. You are expressing hunger for openly political church. The one that will reject yout political ennemies regardless of faith. Your opposition to drag is literally identity politics - rejection due to assumed identity. After all men only and women only groups im church go back to over thousand years. Churches traditionally hosted musical and other performances not strictly related to scripture. Between musoc and groups and socialization and even sports, all of that wqs part of it.

YinglingHeavy 3mo ago

As a Nietzschean it is amusing, this argument that Christianity is losing favor because it is...not moral enough! Truly our institutions are post-Christianity. The herd morality has out survived Christianity itself. Nietzsche's nightmare

mjevans 3mo ago
The nightmare is not outgrowing the child version of 'how to morality'. It's moving past it without reaching the enlightenment of being moral because it's the best large scale and long term strategy. Instead the grown psychopathic children all move for instant gratification and rewards in the now, damn the cost of society and civilization long term. I want to reach Orville / Star Trek, thank you!
- inigyou 3mo ago
  When you say you want to reach Orville, are you referring to the episode where everyone wears an upvote counter badge? Because I can see that one coming true.
PsylentKnight 3mo ago
It’s losing favor because it’s lacking in a lot of ways. The most exhorted virtue in the church is faith, which is just another word for irrationality. So the church often ends up in conflict with reality or even its own doctrine Its more difficult to maintain this when everyone has a device in their pocket that allows them to access information and people outside their church bubble