5 ms·

They did and it used to take a lot of planning, using paper maps, getting lost etc. Just like once people didn't use electricity or vaccines or indoor plumbing

by jraby3 3mo ago

They did and it used to take a lot of planning, using paper maps, getting lost etc. Just like once people didn't use electricity or vaccines or indoor plumbing. For all its minuses the internet makes these long trips 10x easier.

defrost 3mo ago
Hardly, and not by a factor of ten - at best it allows for digital mapping and (unreliably) replaces an ePirb. What it does do, for sure, is encourage people with no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring to have a go and die through lack of prior experience and skills.
- HaZeust 3mo ago
  Can you source a citation referring to people that had "no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring", and were thus "encouraged" to " go and die through lack of prior experience and skills" via Starlink? Whether you like it or not, Starlink being an easily-accesible internet service has likely saved dozens of noobs from certain death by offering emergency eSIM services, GPS navigation, or communciation systems that they wouldn't otherwise have. Can I prove it objectively? Likely not (outside of forum anecdotes), but I wasn't the first to make a claim with the burden to do so.
  - defrost 3mo ago
    > Can you source a citation referring to people that had "no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring" Sure - West Australian newspaper pretty much any week of the year - tourists come from all over the globe to visit the vast untamed outback, rent a 4x4, head out, and get into life threatening (sometimes life ending) trouble despite having a phone connection via either mobile towers or starlink. You know, no charge, no backup, no paper maps, no experience, etc. Whether you like it or not, ePiRBs being an easily accesible service has actually saved dozens of noobs and experienced personal from certain death by offering emergency service alerting - Fact! (and no internet required) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radio_beacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_...
    - ACCount37 3mo ago
      No, I don't like it. Because it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency. That's a silly notion. You could do that, or you could do the 21st century thing, and put up enough satellites to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country. Compatible with any smartphone.
      - defrost 3mo ago
        > it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency. Like Starlink? Glad we agree. > to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country. Literally does not stop people dying and is not a substitute for knowing what you're doing in remote areas. The claim was: For all its minuses the internet makes these long trips 10x easier. which is false - at best it's a 5% improvement on what was required as prep for long remote trips before Starlink. A big issue with yelling help! from a remote location rather than having the skill set to self rescue is that now third parties (rescuers) are putting themselves at risk and using their time and resources which may or may not be reimbursed.
        inemesitaffia 3mo ago
        There's LTE from space already btw in Australia. Will one day be a carrier requirement.
        ACCount37 3mo ago
        In a perfect world, everyone is perfectly knowledgeable and prepared for any eventuality and nothing bad and unexpected ever happens at all. May I remind you what world are we living in? Denying emergency comms to people who didn't buy specialized hardware because "they should have prepared better" sounds like social darwinism to me. Especially in an age when everyone has in their pocket a smartphone that's crammed full of advanced RF tech. Starlink has Direct to Cell on new sats, iPhones can use GEO satcom - what's your excuse?
        3mo ago
- boelboel 3mo ago
  Similar things happen in hiking, people who shouldn't be there get encouraged by by how accessible information is to do things whereas before (most) people got info from someone knowledgeable.
maelito 3mo ago
Yes, that's the problem.
SoftTalker 3mo ago
> using paper maps, getting lost etc All part of the adventure!

by jraby3 3mo ago

defrost 3mo ago

Hardly, and not by a factor of ten - at best it allows for digital mapping and (unreliably) replaces an ePirb. What it does do, for sure, is encourage people with no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring to have a go and die through lack of prior experience and skills.

HaZeust 3mo ago
Can you source a citation referring to people that had "no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring", and were thus "encouraged" to " go and die through lack of prior experience and skills" via Starlink? Whether you like it or not, Starlink being an easily-accesible internet service has likely saved dozens of noobs from certain death by offering emergency eSIM services, GPS navigation, or communciation systems that they wouldn't otherwise have. Can I prove it objectively? Likely not (outside of forum anecdotes), but I wasn't the first to make a claim with the burden to do so.
- defrost 3mo ago
  > Can you source a citation referring to people that had "no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring" Sure - West Australian newspaper pretty much any week of the year - tourists come from all over the globe to visit the vast untamed outback, rent a 4x4, head out, and get into life threatening (sometimes life ending) trouble despite having a phone connection via either mobile towers or starlink. You know, no charge, no backup, no paper maps, no experience, etc. Whether you like it or not, ePiRBs being an easily accesible service has actually saved dozens of noobs and experienced personal from certain death by offering emergency service alerting - Fact! (and no internet required) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radio_beacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_...
  - ACCount37 3mo ago
    No, I don't like it. Because it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency. That's a silly notion. You could do that, or you could do the 21st century thing, and put up enough satellites to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country. Compatible with any smartphone.
    - defrost 3mo ago
      > it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency. Like Starlink? Glad we agree. > to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country. Literally does not stop people dying and is not a substitute for knowing what you're doing in remote areas. The claim was: For all its minuses the internet makes these long trips 10x easier. which is false - at best it's a 5% improvement on what was required as prep for long remote trips before Starlink. A big issue with yelling help! from a remote location rather than having the skill set to self rescue is that now third parties (rescuers) are putting themselves at risk and using their time and resources which may or may not be reimbursed.
      - inemesitaffia 3mo ago
        There's LTE from space already btw in Australia. Will one day be a carrier requirement.
      - ACCount37 3mo ago
        In a perfect world, everyone is perfectly knowledgeable and prepared for any eventuality and nothing bad and unexpected ever happens at all. May I remind you what world are we living in? Denying emergency comms to people who didn't buy specialized hardware because "they should have prepared better" sounds like social darwinism to me. Especially in an age when everyone has in their pocket a smartphone that's crammed full of advanced RF tech. Starlink has Direct to Cell on new sats, iPhones can use GEO satcom - what's your excuse?
        3mo ago
boelboel 3mo ago
Similar things happen in hiking, people who shouldn't be there get encouraged by by how accessible information is to do things whereas before (most) people got info from someone knowledgeable.

maelito 3mo ago

Yes, that's the problem.

SoftTalker 3mo ago

> using paper maps, getting lost etc All part of the adventure!